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Q_x
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« on: December 14, 2011, 04:58:26 PM »

I've been telling this like two months ago on IRC... Write a bit to feed the blog, keep writtn record...
Here it is, incomplete, inaccurate, partially naive:

http://wiki.parpg.net/Blogposts

Please, if you feel in a mood to do it: read it, boost errors, make it longer and more complete, even rewrite it fully - no problem. I'll attempt to post it during the weekend, most probably on Sunday. If somethings goes wrong on my side - feel free to post it anytime next week.
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Rick
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 06:14:33 AM »

I did some minor editing to correct spelling and grammar:

Quote
Radio silence

We've reached the cache in the evening. It's the most remote place we're keeping our stuff in. Small, desolated shack on the mountain stock, close to a big lake. Believe it or not, we have a generator stashed there, hopefully in working condition. But... Does the radio we've been carrying all the way from the bunker work at all?

1... 2... 3... Hello, is anybody out there? 1... 2... 3... Hello? Does anybody read me?

I know you've all been waiting too long for this batch of news. Harsh winter is hitting our little place in the middle of nowhere, covered with waist-deep snow. The winter that seems to be like a white odyssey. After two loud years, we seem to have a couple of quiet ones. Things are happening, just the snow slows us more than we'd expect, days suddenly got shorter, last of our dogs were eaten long ago, and we're pulling the sled on our own. Snowshoes and hunger. We're not out of our rations though, so we’ll keep on moving with slow, steady speed, hoping for a community of cheerful people, their full plates and warm shelters behind every hill we've been approaching.

During this period when our batteries were dead, and we were lost in the wild cold lands, quite a lot things happened. First of all - we have quite a lively fork, PPARPG, lead by Arikel, most widely known due to formerly being involved in The Mana World. You'll find the project at IRC: #pparpg on freenode, and the code is here: https://github.com/arikel/PPARPG . In a nutshell, PPARPG is 3D game set more or less in mood and world of PARPG, and the game is based on Panda 3D engine. We're happily sharing all possible resources and hoping for success.

What's even more surprising, is MrWillis, Rowan the Preacher and Q_x are working together on a sideproject: traditional game, that seems to be a cross-breed between paragraph and board game. You can browse the mailinglist here: http://groups.google.com/group/parpg-sideproject

Also good news: after over a year of being lost, Shevy found his way back to our snowy and cold place. He has been given some rusty nails and an old hammer to keep our formal stuff in one piece. After neglecting our docs for a while - we call it a major overhaul!

Beliar codes quite a lot, repairing and adding new features to our code, like tweaking NPCs behavior, or working on a scripting system. Finally, he has also made and successfully tested a build system, also releasing some files that are packed and ready to check them out: http://sourceforge.net/projects/parpg/files/snapshots/

These are not small things, I think. Every single one of those deserved a separate blog post, separate cheerful "yaay!", quite a bit of excitement on its own. The bitter truth is every single village we've approached so far was abandoned, scavenged and empty, everything that we thought was smoke coming out of a friendly home was a delusion our hungry brains tricked us with, just to keep us going. And man, this winter - will it ever end?

The beginning sentence of the last paragraph "These are not small things, I think." doesn't sound quite right to me, but it adds the touch of a foreign writer which I think makes it more fluent in its own way, so I decided to keep it.

Also, hello. Smiley

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Q_x
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 08:19:30 AM »

Hi!
Thanks a bunch!
And welcome to the team Smiley

Update - to keep an informal tradition, I'll post at Monday, 19th
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 01:30:28 PM by Q_x » Logged

dracre
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 01:24:46 AM »

What's up? Is this project still alive?
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Q_x
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 08:53:55 AM »

Well, we're freezing. Pretty much alive, but not really moving to fast.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 09:41:47 AM by Q_x » Logged

mvBarracuda
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 01:18:35 PM »

I would declare it dead, but that's just me. I personally doubt that the project will make its way to any formal release without any serious effort to find new contributors.
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Q_x
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 02:28:42 PM »

How would such serious effort look like? Posting info wherever possible?

Beliar, from what I understand, rewrote major part of code into component-based architecture, which should make co-work a breeze for coders, and in the future, for game designers. Also we have new repositories, this will hopefully solve some issues with our former repo architecture that made installing a PITA.
So I think it's nothing wrong with saying we're much better prepared, than we were last time we've tried to get things back up to speed (in all aspects but manpower to handle newcomers, which I can help with).
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mvBarracuda
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 08:04:51 PM »

AFAICT there isn't much direction for development right now. I haven't been following the project lately, but what are your aims? Are there any plans for a new release? Do you plan to attract additional contributors or are the current contributors sufficent to ship a new release?

I doubt that there's any easy way to get development going again; maybe the best thing is to announce the official death of the project and hope that somebody else picks it up again.
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Q_x
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 09:56:42 PM »

It's not about directing things, but about doing them in the first place. I think this is where we personally have quite different points of view, so let me elaborate (and I ask you for the same thing). This crew counts one active dev now, namely Beliar, just because all the others are waiting for green light. For a single dev, the direction is not quite what he might expect, but rather few pairs of helping hands instead. The blueprint is laid out far into future, and there is plenty of equally important work waiting piled all over the place.

I'm not quite sure what you call a release either. If this is the kind of event that TD was - there is no one to dress appropriately, no one to clean the house, no Christmas tree,  no one to sit at the table with, or sing carols, no guests to celebrate it with. Like three or four men in total.

What used to was planned as our TD2, or post-second-spint, then no, no such thing may happen. In context of how PARPG code looks and works now, targets and shapes of a release were never defined to stat with.
However, I think we have build system working (Beliar, please correct me if I'm wrong), so wrapping up a couple of "compiled" files is not longer a big problem it used to be.

As or the "death" or "life" of the project - we're at slow speed, busy with other things, but all of us currently active folks - that is shevy, Beliar and me, are doing something from time to time. Our stuff, not interfering o disturbing each other. Last major stuff in terms of code happened just month ago - that is restructuring repos. You can call this death, I can say we're quite lively and enthusiastic, the crew is just damn small.

I'd rather ask Beliar for what he thinks about the state of the project in terms of it being ready or not for additional coders, depth of component structure and state of the build system before doing anything in terms of recruitment or the release.

I have also no clues what you call "picking up". This project runs without any leader since Technomage left, and I think, as for headless creature far past it's decapitating, we did quite a lot - most of it by a single par of programming hands.
Beliar, at least from what I understand without analyzing all the commits, pretty much cleaned the project after the sprint in terms of getting the code back to work. Also we have untangled repositories and component-based structure, both of those are really important not only from single programmer's POV, but for smooth cooperation as well.

Now, if someone would want to pick it up, he o she may do it without any declaration, not even asking us for permission. For some reason, probably just because how the world works,  nothing like that happens for a second year now. And it won't change by declaration, I'm afraid.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 10:01:52 PM by Q_x » Logged

mvBarracuda
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 12:08:55 PM »

Fair enough. Thanks for elaborating on your point of view. I'm not sure sure if any official declaration might spark some outside interest in picking up the project or if it would actually do any harm.

My personal POV is that we've tried to bite off more than we could chew; the aim to create a full scale RPG similar to Fallout was simply too ambitious. I've been following the development of FanMadeFallout over the years from an outsider perspective and I found their final news update quite fitting:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110718210419/http://www.fanmadefallout.com/

It is actually my honest opinion that this project will never come close to what I originally had in mind. That's not a problem itself. It might be wise to think about the aims of the project again and redefine what you're trying to achieve.

Anyway, I'll pay for the hosting of PARPG until the end of 2012. I can provide mysql dumps and a complete filesystem dump in case you want to continue development in 2013 and want to move the website/forums/wiki elsewhere.
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Q_x
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 05:10:51 PM »

I remember (and kept in mind) us chatting about you want to cease the hosting in 2012. Please make sure zenbitz will have a copy of the wiki database, as he asked for it on several occasions.

I don't see the story to be similar to FMF really. All that we've failed to do so far was rather minor mistakes, like some misfortunate beta soft going in the way, sprinting in general, or minor repo glitches. Some conclusions, correct ones, were made pretty late though (things like generated content, component-based system). So yes, the initial ideas were inadequate to how development looks like, but I think there were proposed  (through last year) some ideas that would make those blockers excluded, changed or bypassed.

What is common though is that we haven't tried hard enough to attract programmers here and move obstacles out of their way. FLARE and Freedroid are currently dealing better, both having single devoted person who happens (AFAIK) to be a coder.

Well, I guess the time to start scavenge feast is quite close, I hope we'll make it in PARPG style!

(har har har  Wink )
  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 05:13:13 PM by Q_x » Logged

shevegen
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 07:53:59 PM »

Quote
we've tried to bite off more than we could chew; the aim to create a full scale RPG similar to Fallout was simply too ambitious.

Probably harsh but true.

Quote
It is actually my honest opinion that this project will never come close to what I originally had in mind. That's not a problem itself. It might be wise to think about the aims of the project again and redefine what you're trying to achieve.

I think in theory it could work if we'd have enough people who can contribute. But this is probably hard to achieve. We'd need much more recruiting again. We need more concentrated efforts to continue to hack on the code base and expand.

Quote
Anyway, I'll pay for the hosting of PARPG until the end of 2012. I can provide mysql dumps and a complete filesystem dump in case you want to continue development in 2013 and want to move the website/forums/wiki elsewhere.

I suppose the biggest question is if we think we'll be able to push the game into a state where it can continue to evolve.

Right now I think things are in too much disarray. It may even be easier to start from 0, and learn from mistakes, than shape things into a way as to make the game a success.

I think the more honest approach is to close the game in its CURRENT state. What happens afterwards, I don't know.

Perhaps we should make some efforts to polish up the game as much as possible, so that when others want to pick up, things are somewhat clean. You know ... like make one final release of PARPG, to showcase what we managed to achieve still. Smiley
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 07:55:44 PM by shevegen » Logged

Cleaning away the bureaucracy in PARPG to make our life easier.
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 11:24:01 PM »

Thumbs up for cleaning and wrapping it all up. We'll probably make some noise this way, so I'd rather do it well before shutting down the domain. I'm still hoping we can regroup and do something smaller with more success in terms of playability, but my will has nothing to do, since I won't code nothing - at least not well.
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