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Author Topic: Is everyone okay with announcing PARPG dead and ready for takeover?  (Read 4960 times)
mvBarracuda
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« on: May 26, 2010, 11:13:28 AM »

Heya lads,

I was chatting with some people over IRC and we talked about PARPG and its future. It looks like the development has halted (last SVN commit was almost three weeks ago and the IRC channel is pretty much deserted despite some long time idlers who are rather quiet.

If you don't mind, I would like to announce the project offially dead at the blog at the weekend and encourage people to take the project over and lead it into a direction they think is promising. At the end of the day it sounds more worthwhile if somebody picks up the project even if it means turning it into a slightly different one than we have imagined. Otherwhise it will prolly just continue to rot and that would do no favor to the project either.

If you have any objections against going ahead and annoucing the project dead and ready for takeover, let me know until Friday evening.
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Beliar
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 02:26:33 PM »

It would be okay for me.
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Q_x
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 08:58:21 PM »

There are many things we can do to promote PARPG stuff, but since the leading persons left/disengaged/lost steam all at once - the project has been beheaded. Unmanaged work looks pointless, so anyway, whatever.

Could be dead, no new head has popped up.

My bitter lesson taken here is not to believe in any kind of survival philosophy in any FLOSS project description. And to work with projects that are in playable state.

I'm still willing to do my best if someone will take care of things over here.

There is a major effort to be made, apart from blog entry: detailed documentation of the project current state, with all implemented features and all major bugs, with all problems and strong points fleshed out.

I'm always rare guest on IRC, sorry for that.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 09:00:33 PM by Q_x » Logged

egalor
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 06:44:20 AM »

Although I understand mvBarracuda's vector of thought, I fail to see the real purpose behind announcing officially the death of the project. That the project has stopped being developed at some time point - is already obvious from the latest blog post.  That the project is 'rotting' - I don't get it either. In my view it is rather slowly 'fermenting', than 'rotting'.

In other words, the state of the project is already told in the last post. No need to stress that again, in my view.

Personally I will take over the project sooner ot later, and will even get money for that Smiley.
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Q_x
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 12:13:05 PM »

egalor - you, who was unable to inspect the state of this project, want to take it over? Take me too, bro!
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egalor
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 12:21:45 PM »

Take me too, bro!

Hey, jump in! Smiley

There's no reason to hurry after all, now that the project is considered dead. I have all the eternity yet.

Speaking seriously, I will turn to it someday if somebody else doesn't pick it up instead, because I regard it is a nice launch pad to start my own project.
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2010, 05:29:41 AM »

Its not that way, sorry.
1. We don't have eternal bodies,so our time will run out fast.
2. There is the software we are depending on, like the FIFE engine, which will change PARPG into "fix me first" kind of software within a year or two.
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JustinOperable
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2010, 11:03:10 AM »

This kind of upsets me. It sucks to think that all the work we did will be for not. If leaving it in a halted state doesn't lead to someone else picking it up, then I don't see how declaring it dead will do anything more than likely mean our work was for nothing. I think we should at least try one last push to drum up interest. I don't know that I could take over for anyone, but I'd definitely be willing to do as much as I could to keep it going. Oh hell, who cares, declare it dead, but I still think that we should put together a packet of materials showing all the work we've done, stick it somewhere, and link the holy hell out of it everywhere. If I knew how to use SVN and knew anything about programming I would offer to take over myself, although I'm not entirely convinced that a "head" is what we need, we just need a team, people who know the project, are working on it, and I think decisions can be made collectively.


As for the packet, if anyone is interested in taking part in this with me, email me at Anok at riseup.net.
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Q_x
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2010, 02:10:01 PM »

Do you still want to get the e-mails? Or may we continue in the forums thread you've started?

It will be difficult to find replacement for Barra, the manager, Shevy, the person with the endless enthusiasm, Zenbitz, our main writer and mechanics designer and Maximinus, our advanced Python hacker, all at once. We have to try really hard, I think.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 02:24:34 PM by Q_x » Logged

maximinus
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 04:07:52 PM »

Barra, I enjoyed the ride, announce what you like, even though I feel it will make very little difference and I hate to see the end of an enjoyable ride.

Obviously at some point the forums / wiki etc will come to an end, so it may be a idea to port our artwork (which was generally good) over to some game art websites so that other projects could use them.
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freegamer
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2010, 05:41:23 PM »

I think this kind of defeatist attitude is worthless, and if you all truly feel so sorry for yourselves then the project is dead and a waste of everybody's time.

However, if you are more philosophical and believe that life is fluid, that some things come and other things go, but that the water always flows and objects in the water will sometimes settle and sometimes move, then you might have a more optimistic outlook.  The project infrastructure is the main worry - once Barra's various hosting options expire it will all go.  That's why it's always better to use something like Sourceforge etc which is less dependent upon 1 or a few people.

If you can keep the infrastructure (communication channels, wiki, gallery, source control) up long term, people will happen upon the project.  People invested in the project will do bits and pieces, or even come back.  You just need to take a more informal approach to moving things forward.  Identify low hanging fruit, easier tasks, make it easy for those who work to do something productive.   Integrate existing assets when possible, and - when not - work on things in parallel with a view to later integration.

That 90% programming is not 100% required.  Those that can, work on the bits that make the most difference.  Work on regular releases when momentum is up.

Vega Strike has often been dormant for sometimes 2-3 years at a time.  The original developers often disappear for real life then return for short periods and improve things.  It is still alive.  There is no reason to declare PARPG dead, unless you really truly want to kill the project.
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Q_x
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2010, 08:26:37 PM »

Freegamer - I understand your approach to the subject, you probably are right. I even considered asking for help directly to GNU, cause when the game will be playable, it will be really good - this is very ambitious project.

For the moment it is really important for me personally to know who is interested in keeping PARPG alive as I do. It would be nice to know if it would be sufficient crew for going forward with reasonable speed, or - if not - is it a good thing to decease the project or maybe it would be better to migrate it somewhere, hibernate all possible things until maybe a kind of new crew will form around the content. This is why the meeting is being organized (this Sunday), to measure how strong or weak we are and to decide if we wish to do any work, or just say goodbye and leave cold dinner ready to reheat for a hungry persons.

Some work made here is not "lost" in any way - with open licensing we are creating pretty much recyclable goods. However all the game-specific ideas, discussion, mechanics, probably our writing work and huge part of code will be not easy to reuse.

We still have huge code parts that are yet to be made. I see this as a number one obstacle for attracting new people here - you need to see the game rolling to born a thought in one's mind like "hey, thats cool, lemme help you!". The content should IMHO follow the engine development, to be build on a structure made of the game engine and game or quest-related ideas and needs. There is no specific 2D/3D/dialogue/concept-art content to be made without the quest sketched, and there is not easy to do a plot without a 100% working map interaction, fights, mechanics, items interaction, inventory, NPC and so on. You need to do something to start developing with - we have this much, with a kind of surplus. Some of this "code me" things are in various stages of development, and some, like the game mechanics, are pretty much sketched and left in this stage.
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