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zenbitz
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2009, 10:49:50 PM »


Thanks Shihonage... but yes... you cannot make the writers/level designers etc. refer to objects by ID#.
Maybe the the way to do it is to have a "double" naming system; each object has a (unique) class name "beer", "12 ga. shotgun" and then an optional "specific" name "billy's shotgun", "beer made by the gods".

I wonder if will want to refer to items by "superclass" like   if npc.hasItem("weapon") would return True if the PC has any item that falls under the class "weapon".

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b0rland
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 09:23:00 AM »

I added the findItem function. It currently supports name parameter to look up by name and kind parameter to look up by one of our base types like "weapon", "openable", "container", etc.
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b0rland
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 10:19:48 AM »

The bugs mentioned above are fixed.

However I'm still not quite sure about the best way to act when one object is being put on top of the other. There are two obvious strategies and maybe more not-so-obvious ones.
Stategy 1:  When a new object is being put in a slot occupied by an old object, we replace the old one with the new one and drop the old one to backpack. This is what I do now. I think it makes sense for objects already being worn or wielded, but it looks a bit awkward when done in backpack. I welcome everyone to play around with the two daggers that PC currently has to see what I'm talking about. I suspect it may cause some confusion among players.
Strategy 2: When an object is being dropped into an occupied slot, deny that and return the dropped object to its original place.

I know that Arcanum follows strategy 2. Can someone post an info on some other RPG games? Does anyone do strategy 1 and if so, which game exactly? Also, I'd gladly hear your thoughts about whether or not the current behavior is confusing.
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shevegen
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 04:36:37 PM »

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When a new object is being put in a slot occupied by an old object, we replace the old one with the new one and drop the old one to backpack.

In the old text MUDs you usually had containers and the "inventory". The inventory was a simplification of saying "your character carries these things with his hands" or somehow attached to himself, but without specifically putting it into a container (like into a backpack, or a simple bag)

In Ultima VII and VIII you could quite easily stuff bag into bag into bag into backpack. Was a bit annoying to search through your belongings, because you had to click with your mouse. But in principle it was fun.

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I think it makes sense for objects already being worn or wielded, but it looks a bit awkward when done in backpack.

Not sure what you mean "in backpack". You mean an object replacing another object in the backpack? Or, that if you wear a new hat, the old hat would then appear in the backpack?

Quote
When an object is being dropped into an occupied slot, deny that and return the dropped object to its original place.

Quote
I know that Arcanum follows strategy 2. Can someone post an info on some other RPG games? Does anyone do strategy 1 and if so, which game exactly?

Personally I think this behaviour in #2 is a bit annoying. It forces you to first "remove" a worn object before you can wear a new object right?
Actually, the text MUDs I used to play require you to do the same. If you wanted to wear a second trouser, it gave you an error message:
"Something is in the way."
Which meant that some other armour layer was occupying that slot already.
You would first have to "remove" this layer.

Fallout was sort of much simpler. You only had slots for 2 weapons and one armour piece. Most other RPGs allow you to wear multiple stuff. In Realms of Arcania, you could replace an object with another object by just dragging that object onto the slot of the new one, and I think this is good.

Image showing this:


The general aim, IMHO, should be to allow things to work easily for the player. (Come to think about it, Fallout was really quite limited here. Even if we dont have magical rings, why not allow the actor to wear a ring? At the worst, it could be a gold ring, and the actor could trade it for something lateron, or a NPC might notice that ring and exchange it for some special item, because that NPC always wanted to have such a ring or something ...)
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zenbitz
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2009, 06:08:08 PM »

The Aventum (VI) inventory GUI is actually pretty nice.  I guess it's not out for PC yet.

What I would do is have the 'backpack' (bulk storage) slots all act the same, so if you drop an object ANYWHERE in the "backpack" it just goes to the first empty space.  Although I guess that will hurt people who actually want to _organize_ their backpacks.  You could just have it drop to "nearest open space" so it would land where you would expect it to.

I would have to review the inventory mechanics specs, but my recollection is that we only limited the total weight and maximum size of any object in the "pack".

Remember, the generic design goal is NOT the standard RPG "Oh, lets' fill my pack with everything I find" (In Aventum 16 I was walking around with 17 bags of mushroom meal, and 2 extra suits of chainmail), but rather to make the player decide what he needs (there wlll be a mechanism to "cache" things somewhere, although it's not immune to theft or spoilage).

Speaking of which, it came up in this (or another) thread recently about why quest items (that are otherwise useless) have zero weight/bulk - the answer is that so you won't get punished by leaving somewhere far away, then have to go back and get it to finish a quest.  (unless of, course, part of the quest is that you have to figure out how to transport some bulky or heavy item long distances)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 06:10:39 PM by zenbitz » Logged

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b0rland
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 06:31:06 PM »

Not sure what you mean "in backpack". You mean an object replacing another object in the backpack? Or, that if you wear a new hat, the old hat would then appear in the backpack?
First, to make things absolutely clear, backpack is the area where all the objects that are not currently worn or wielded reside. The area 4x5 slots at the bottom of inventory dialog. So, I'm referring to the case when I try to place an object into one of those slots and the slot is already occupied. What happens is the object currently occupying the slot is replaced by a new one and is transferred into the first vacant slot of the backpack. That is supposing backpack has infinite size. With limited backpack capacity it gets even uglier. Although in that case we can probably resort to option #2 (deny the operation and put the new object back where it was taken from).

Quote
I know that Arcanum follows strategy 2. Can someone post an info on some other RPG games? Does anyone do strategy 1 and if so, which game exactly?

Personally I think this behaviour in #2 is a bit annoying. It forces you to first "remove" a worn object before you can wear a new object right?
Actually, the text MUDs I used to play require you to do the same. If you wanted to wear a second trouser, it gave you an error message:
"Something is in the way."
Which meant that some other armour layer was occupying that slot already.
You would first have to "remove" this layer.
Yes, that's what I meant. And I do agree that it's more cumbersome, that's why I chose to implement the "replacing" strategy.

I'll try to dig for a copy of Realms of Arcania to see how it works there. Hope I can make it run in dosbox or elsewhere.
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b0rland
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2009, 03:08:03 PM »

I created a ticket http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/ticket/238 . It's about increasing the amount of items that can be displayed in backpack section and making it scrollable and improving visual appearance of inventory gui. Feel free to add more enhancements into that task.
Those who feel confident with pychan guis and have some experience with gui design and wish to do this ticket, raise your hands please. Or rather just assign to yourself and do it Smiley.
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