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Author Topic: Availabilty of stuff in PARPG.  (Read 15758 times)
m64
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 04:35:32 PM »

Indestructible scenery has been (and still is) caused rather by technical limitations than gameplay choices. It is very hard to do realistically (and nicely) in 2D, it is possible to do in 3D, but to be doable on massive scale it requires a properly written engine and most current engines are not written that way. Usually a fully destructible environment is such a big deal that it is used as the main feature for the game (like in the Red Faction series). And so unless we want PARPG to be a game about destroying walls, we will probably have to live with limited explosives.
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Dave Matney
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 05:22:16 PM »

Indestructible scenery has been (and still is) caused rather by technical limitations than gameplay choices. It is very hard to do realistically (and nicely) in 2D, it is possible to do in 3D, but to be doable on massive scale it requires a properly written engine and most current engines are not written that way. Usually a fully destructible environment is such a big deal that it is used as the main feature for the game (like in the Red Faction series). And so unless we want PARPG to be a game about destroying walls, we will probably have to live with limited explosives.

Zenbitz is going to kick me for this, but I'm going to argue that if we allow wanton destruction in the game, players will love that more than whether it looks realistic or not.  It's just a graphics thing in a 2d world; if the explosion happens near something, we give everything in the game a brief "breaking" animation, and switch to it's now-broken image.

The major upside to a project like this is because we're not demanding so much from the computers other than, maybe, space, sequences like that can happen a lot easier than in a game that's already straining the GPU.
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m64
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2009, 11:27:00 PM »

I am not sure whether a 2D animation could present such destruction realistically, taking into account things like direction and distance. Perhaps some 2D particles could help, but I am affraid it still could look like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl5tppp-6JU.
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Dave Matney
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2009, 11:59:20 PM »

It's just a matter of how you program it.  Think about Doom barrels, when they exploded they cast off a damage field, and if another barrel was within that feild, it, too, blew up.  Explosions in Doom weren't straight lines, they were circles (spheres, maybe).  We just have to reflect how explosives really work.  Sure, we might not have EXACT science behind it (if you blow up a wall, will it fall left, right, or straight down? or a combination of the above?), but I think what Zenbitz is trying to say is that "If something can be destroyed by dynamite in real life, than, by God, it should be destroyable by dynamite in games."
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mvBarracuda
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2009, 02:42:06 PM »

I'm with m64: I think it's pretty hard to do either technically or from an asset point of view. If we don't talk about inventing some revolutionary new technique to get it properly and realistically looking working in 2d, we have to go for the "every object has a blown up version as well". That seems like a lot of overkill to me.

I would personally favour the proposal of explosives that are not uncommon but only an expert could properly detonate them. In Fallout you had the small chance of failing the skill check and the explosive would blow up early. My proposal is to radically raise that bar: unless you're an expert in this field, it's _very_ likely that you'll blow yourself up.
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zenbitz
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2009, 12:11:21 AM »

All reasonable thoughts here.   You still have to be a little careful about "realistic" explosives that only experts can use properly... because then you have "demolition man" as the best character in the game (so, the unbalance shifts from "weapons" to "characters").

I always seems very "mario" like to have some quest that can only be solved by proper use of explosives, but those same explosives are basically useless for most other quests or "free play".  Fallout was like this, and I thought it detracted from the game.

In any case - I am happy if we all agree that explosives could be tricky to balance and should be handled carefully at the writing, mechanics, and programming levels.

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zenbitz
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 02:08:10 AM »

Further mechanics/programming discussion to go here:
http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=355.0

"Items Catalog" has been wikiied here: http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposals:Catalog_of_item_types
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shevegen
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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 01:49:53 PM »

Discussing in forum seems easier to me, the wiki looks kinda alien (I dont even know who wrote that wiki section whereas here on the forum i can easily find out who wrote what)

One thing I want to add about the availability of stuff is loosely modeled on the Gladius operation of the NATO in Europe after world war 2.
To cut this long story short, the main idea was to establish stay-behind networks of armed forces (or paramilitary forces) operating in guerilla fashion against a percieved enemy. Now, we could speculate that this would have been expanded in World War 3 as well, with one possible result being that the actor could, 20 years later, by chance or somehow else (NPC found out and told the actor, or actor finds documents which point to a specific location) finds such a place and recieves some more or less usable equipment.

I guess we have to take into account that not every equipment will work as it should, at least not as a 100% chance, but such a hidden "treasure" could be nice for the actor as almost "free equipment".
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zenbitz
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2009, 08:40:14 PM »

Discussing in forum seems easier to me, the wiki looks kinda alien (I dont even know who wrote that wiki section whereas here on the forum i can easily find out who wrote what)

That's why there is a link to a forum topic too.  To discuss what is written in the wiki.  If you think something should be added, changed, or deleted in the wiki page, you can make a note of it in the forum topic and someone will (if they agree) edit the wiki page.

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One thing I want to add about the availability of stuff is loosely modeled on the Gladius operation of the NATO in Europe after world war 2.
To cut this long story short, the main idea was to establish stay-behind networks of armed forces (or paramilitary forces) operating in guerilla fashion against a percieved enemy. Now, we could speculate that this would have been expanded in World War 3 as well, with one possible result being that the actor could, 20 years later, by chance or somehow else (NPC found out and told the actor, or actor finds documents which point to a specific location) finds such a place and recieves some more or less usable equipment.

Um yes, the player should be able to find stuff left over from 1988?  I don't understand your point.
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shevegen
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 09:41:33 PM »

How about guns for techdemo?

They dont have to be fireable... just a model for inventory, and on the game map.
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mvBarracuda
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2009, 12:27:22 AM »

If you can't fire them, they're not worth including IMO. We should rather focus on creating assets that will be actually useable in the techdemo.
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