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Author Topic: Sameness of objects - a million perfect copies  (Read 7613 times)
shevegen
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« on: August 20, 2009, 11:16:02 PM »

When one currently views the little demo with the actor, one can see that objects and roads look exactly the same.

I believe this is not very realistic. It looks artifical. It looks perfect.
Nothing against Fallout (i loved it) but objects in reallife aren't usually always the same. Some crates are smaller than others for example. Would each crate/object (with different size) need to be a new model? Or can the engine handle zooming or skewing a model before rendering?

I am talking about something like this image:


In my opinion there is too much sameness, too much monotony (excluding the building, which actually seems slightly more realistic than the roads or crates)
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mvBarracuda
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 12:28:53 AM »

It's a test map :-) We'll ship a more sophisticated map with the first demo release. Patience
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Border
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 03:11:49 AM »

hey at least did someone notice i changed the character?? yeah?  its a little me Cheesy
Now you now what i look like... in Iso and from 30 M aways.
I agree with Shevegen. Barra i remember  telling it might be great if some programmer or anybody able to, does a small tut for us artist to test new asset. Even if its a test map it might be good as shevegen said to have multiple stuff in it.
And the map editor doesn't work on my side, same as the game. The only game that run was the exe Kaydeth ( i guess) made.
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mvBarracuda
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 05:11:59 AM »

You're running win32 Border? Building on the platform is really easy if you're not using a 64bit Windows version. Have you tried to build PARPG from source?
http://wiki.parpg.net/Download

The main problem with editing the maps at this point is the separation of maps into two files. This approach is not supported by the official FIFE map editor so we either have to merge the maps into one file again or have to modify the map editor code to support the separated maps approach before we can actually use the editor for editing efforts.

EDIT: I'll be pretty busy for the rest of August, but I've got almost a full week to spend on PARPG in early September. I'll create a map editor guide at the wiki then. Hopefully one of the programmers looks into merging the two separated map files around the same time so you guys could start playing around with the editor.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 05:35:49 AM by mvBarracuda » Logged
Kaydeth
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 01:10:08 PM »

Merging the files in in progress.

http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/ticket/72

In the end we will probably have to tweak the editor to include PARPG specific object attributes but people will be able to test graphics once the files are merged.

In fact you could add graphics to the map file as it stands now and they should show up. They just won't do anything.
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shevegen
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 05:14:08 PM »

Ok, I think what I am basically trying to find out is if it is possible to have different objects available in game, even from "standard" objects, like crates etc... ?

There seems to be a yes to this question, if I understood this.

Quote
tweak the editor to include PARPG specific object attributes but people will be able to test graphics once the files are merged.

I didn't even think about the editor Smiley but i guess the editor can stay very simple. Like, a user could in theory dump a crate somewhere, and then apply slight changes to this crate (like another colour, if that is possible)

But is this possible? Can objects have different colours easily? Or would that require new models?

Quote
hey at least did someone notice i changed the character?? yeah?  its a little me

Yeah of course, and it is a cool change, but I must admit that I am easily distracted. The floating NPC which you could push away was much more irritating than the cool moving actor. And the perfect roads were even more irritating. I mean, back in games like Ultima 6, there was no problem with those isometric views and perfect objects (the paths were like neverending...), but I believe the ability for a game engine to slightly change those perfect objects to objects which look different, even if the changes are just small, could give it a more realistic touch. Even if it is "only" light effects applied to it, they would already get a different feeling while playing.

I dont know how this was in Fallout, or in games like Planescape or Gothic, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that objects should really be somehow more ... different.

But really, for me - I dont even know if this is possible with the engine.

Btw, the walk animation is cool. Now if the actor could duck down for cover, or draw a weapon ...
Do we still have the animated deer btw?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 05:16:16 PM by shevegen » Logged

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Border
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 05:43:26 PM »

i will try to reply with the best of my knowledge
Quote
Can objects have different colours easily?
If we can use layered sprite yeah. we can defined zone with RGB and assigne different color to it. But personnaly for STATIC objet i would prefer have different model.
For animation stuff wich are long to render, i would use Layer Sprite.
And i fully agree with you. life is straight with perfect angle , things need to be broken down. And it will.. as soon i get a hand on the editor Grin
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Gaspard
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« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2009, 12:08:35 PM »

Couldn't we make a list of some stuff ?

Like:

- crate size A two colours + each with snow for outside purpose
- crate size B (smaller) three colours + each with snow for outside purpose
- barrel two colours + one broken + all versions with snow for outside purpose
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Border
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2009, 02:22:24 PM »

i currently plan to make a similar list of the stuff needed with the variant.
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Gaspard
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2009, 11:10:33 PM »

Oh by the way. Here's a generic list of stuff that probably could end up being in the game (still a proposal):
http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposals:Catalog_of_item_types


 I'd think any misc item could be worked on already. Definitely various containers for inside uses like lockers, footlockers, cabinets, chests (pirates, arr), cupboards, bedside cupboards, writing desks with drawers etc in various positions for setting them into a scenery facing this way or that.
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shevegen
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 04:31:14 PM »

On that last note, can images be added to the wiki (the linke you gave) if they exist in-game?
I could do this, but I dont know where images would be kept for those kind of objects.

Btw i disagree with one statement on the wiki there, on that above link:
Quote
It makes sense to give these items zero bulk and weight so as to not punish a player for hauling them around.

I think items should always have a weight, no matter if they are "special" or not. Anything else would be not realistic.

If you want to not punish players for carrying stuff, then I suggest other NPCs help him carry, or ways to store objects, or perhaps means of transportation like a dog sledge or similar. But objects which weigh nothing, just because they are special items, sounds not realistic at all.
A parchment - ok, we can neglect such weight, but heavier objects should always affect NPCs and PCs alike.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 04:34:38 PM by shevegen » Logged

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zenbitz
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2009, 09:45:34 PM »

I think the idea that is some items have NO use other than fufilling quest like goals.   I just wanted to make it so the inventory and carrying capacity "game" would not be a pain in the ass.

Obviously, if it's part of the quest that the item(s) recovered are buiky and hard to deal with, then they should weights.  For example "Bring me an engine block of a 1984 Fiat Spider";

Further discussion to the mechanics forum please (Mod can fork the thread)
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