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Author Topic: WIP - HUD and the GUIs, feedback needed !  (Read 50761 times)
zenbitz
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 10:47:54 PM »

I have fleshed out (heh) a Mechanics proposal for health and wounding:

http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=425.0 is the discussion topic
http://wiki.parpg.net/Proposals:Health_and_Damage is the direct link to the wiki page.

I like the little Deus Ex guy - I would use something simple like Green/Yellow/Red/Black to indicate the various wound levels (strictly speaking that's not enough...
but:
Green: Healthy
Yellow: Minor wound
Red: Useless part (or worse)
Black: Severed/Dead

Obviously, if you are out cold, it doesn't really matter what color the little icon is...
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Border
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2009, 01:19:51 PM »

i would suggest not to go to detail for the HUD , let just go for color and use the inventory to add info on the body wound with percentage.
Or maybe you can have a bigger humanoid image in the Character menu with clearer info with percentage and the rest (frostbite etc)
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Gaspard
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »

I guess then we should also decide what we're going to merge with what or keep all windows separate. Will the Character screen and Inventory screen be one piece or separate ? Same thing for Dialogue and Barter/Trade and Inventory vs Looting containers (and corpses)...
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shevegen
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2009, 11:00:26 PM »

Do we have any update on the HUD?
About the question of keeping things separate, I think it is easier to answer with draft sketches Cheesy
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Gaspard
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2009, 03:33:05 PM »

okay people, your input is needed with this topic

check this out: http://wiki.parpg.net/Graphics:GUI_Design
there's a lot of material, pictures from other games GUIs too.

and go over border's sketches in this topic, too



what are your thought's on the GUI/HUD ? feedback feedback feedback !
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shevegen
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2009, 05:34:29 PM »

I think different people value different stuff... uh... differently.

For example, I usually love to have many options available as part of a HUD (inventory compass etc..)

Anyone remembers Commandos, the game? That had quite a cool HUD.

But for PARPG, i think we should initially keep it really simple and primitive, and then when that works we could add stuff

About your compass idea, at least if i see the HUD right - such a compass should only appear if a char has a compass in his inventory. Come to think about it... I believe we could value coldness effects.

For example, if your character feels awfully cold, parts of the HUD could appear under a white layer of ice, and the player could not click on it for instance until he finds a warmer place again and has time to rest there. (Just one idea...)

http://wiki.parpg.net/File:Grd_GUI_idea2.jpg

Also, I loved the original Fallout stat creation system, with the smiling pipboy... we could have a smaller snowman smiling and model it a bit similar to it. But I have no problem at all if this appears in another way. I.e. Eleazzaar's proposal is as equally fine.

Btw I am surprised that Commandos 2 had so much snow... I guess I have to play it again one day hehe

Their HUD seems a bit minimal though....

Anyway, what I want to say is that we should rather aim for a minimal HUD initially, and extend it lateron.
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Gaspard
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2009, 05:58:23 PM »

01. Here's the main HUD concept


02. Here's dialogue screen. top right portrait is NPCs and lower left is PCs


03.this is trading/looting/stealing screen


04.character sheet with stats and skills and resistances etc WITH the inventory that has the characters paper doll


05. this is the notebook where you can read your notes, rumors, check out your quests and kills etc


06.this is the local map view


07.and this is world map travel view

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Gaspard
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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2009, 07:51:20 PM »

Oh and that darker gray horizontal panel in the top left side between the MAP and REST/WAIT buttons should have the daylight/nightime graph. It shows whether it's day or night, morning or noon etc
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zenbitz
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2009, 10:09:47 PM »

good start.   Current "plans" give the player three "damage tracks" (akin to health or hit points) - "Damage" "Exhaustion" and "Stress".

I am still looking for a better way to state "the inverse of health" than "physical body damage"... corporal punishment?

It seems like it should be inverted so that all 3 go in the same "direction" (i.,e increased stress or increased exhaustion == increased damage)

we could invert all of them but I like "stress".  

Further discussions to mechanics forum, please...

EDIT: Gaspard did me the favor of looking up the thread and cross posting... it's here: http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=425.0
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 11:35:18 PM by zenbitz » Logged

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zenbitz
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2009, 12:02:09 AM »

Other than temperature... does the HUD need to represent other "weather" or environmental effects?

Some this (rain, snow, etc.) can just be shown directly (particle effects?)
I imagine that (at least when out in the wilderness) PC needs to know when a storm is coming, etc.  Maybe a little forecast bar (I am guess on the world map interface, rather than main one)

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Gaspard
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2009, 12:50:39 AM »

the weather icons could be added to the World Map travel screen. to the empty right side panel for example.
But that information or it's avavilability could also be triggered by a skill, survival for example.

so if you've got low survival or wilderness or whatever then you don't get that information on the map (like on a weather forecast map on television), but might get it with high enough skill or with a special trait or if an old wise geezer teaches you how to look at the weather signs. Hm.
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zenbitz
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2009, 05:51:48 AM »

Oh, should have mentioned that.

Yes, your ability to predict the weather will depend on your skills - either "sky reading" (default: wilderness survival)  or some more high-tech version ("meteorology") which may require tools or equipment or something...

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eleazzaar
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« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2009, 06:14:14 PM »

I know i've been away for a while, and probably don't have time to really get involved again.  But it's hard to resist a GUI discussion, and maybe i can help move this along.

Some Preliminary Questions:

* Has the idea of having a party been abandoned?  None of these GUIs support multiple characters.  A good GUI for a party is very different from a single player game GUI.  Even if you don't directly control them, you'll want to know some of your companion(s) stats and status

* Why do we need a compass?  Can you actually rotate the viewpoint?


Comments:

* I'd encourage everyone to not get caught up yet in the "style" of the GUI. At this point it's mostly a distraction. First you need to figure out what information you need to display, and how to display it.  Once that is done, or mostly done, then you are in a good place to design a "skin" for the GUI.  Gaspard's concepts above have the right kind of idea.

* I wouldn't make a "skill" button for using skills, but instead bring up a contextual menu when you click on an object.  For skills that have no object (if any), click on the player's character.

* I found the little text box crammed into the side of fallout's hud inadequate and annoying.  And if Zenbits has his way our calculations won't be nearly that simple.  We need more room for it.  I'd put that text readout in it's own box that can be resized, and it can be turned off when not wanted.

* I believe you need some sort of "humanoid" icon (at least for the selected character) to show what is damaged if that is indeed significant to gameplay.  However, having 35 hit locations that don't really matter seems excessive.  IMHO hit locations should be reduced to a number that really matter to the player, and can practically be displayed to the player.
You also probably need a more linear way to see how close to dead a character is.

* Just because a rule makes sense written out in text doesn't mean it can be conveyed to the player sensibly via a GUI.

* Temperature bar should probably look like an actual thermometer, i.e. not a red-blue gradient, but a red line (or silver) that stops at the level temperature.

* Character and Inventory screens should be separate, unless there is some compelling reason they need to be visible at once.  I think there will be too much info to fit at once anyway.

* I don't see a need for a window navigation between "trade, loot, sell, steal, gamble".  These actions will be rarely available from the same object, i.e. if you click on a box or a corpse, you can only loot.   "Trade" and "Sell" should probably be the same interface, i don't see a reason to distinguish them.  This and especially gamble could be accessed via dialog.  "Steal" is should probably be an action you initiate against a person.  
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 06:31:30 PM by eleazzaar » Logged
Gaspard
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2009, 06:38:47 PM »

I know i've been away for a while, and probably don't have time to really get involved again.  But it's hard to resist a GUI discussion, and maybe i can help move this along.

Some Preliminary Questions:

* Has the idea of having a party been abandoned?  None of these GUIs support multiple characters.  A good GUI for a party is very different from a single player game GUI.  Even if you don't directly control them, you'll want to know some of your companion(s) stats and status
there was something bugging me the whole time I was thinking about the layouts and what should be visible at all times. And now I remembered - the party members or temporary followers...

Quote from: eleazzaar
* I found the little text box crammed into the side of fallout's hud inadequate and annoying.  And if Zenbits has his way our calculations won't be nearly that simple.  We need more room for it.  I'd put that text readout in it's own box that can be resized, and it can be turned off when not wanted.
here I have to disagree, Fallout happens to be one of the only games where that text box never bothered me. I found that the messages added a lot to my gaming experience, I liked to examine everything, partly to get to know the world and partly to see what the developers didn't feel like working on Smiley

the resizing and hiding remark I with absolutely. I keep forgetting that the GUI does not have to be just static pop-up windows

Quote from: eleazzaar
* Temperature bar should probably look like an actual thermometer, i.e. not a red-blue gradient, but a red line (or silver) that stops at the level temperature.
but of course

Quote from: eleazzaar
* Character and Inventory screens should be separate, unless there is some compelling reason they need to be visible at once.  I think there will be too much info to fit at once anyway.
Why I put them together was because there are some statistics that the persons equipment changes one way or another, some resistances, be they location specific or not, encumbrance, some items may add to skills (a good set of lockpicks makes picking locks tons easier that just a hairpin) etc. So if that information should be available to the player one way or another then why not show the two screens together.

I get your point though I personally wouldn't be against scrolling if everything does not fit in one window.
But that depends on how much information there is going to be, information that's going to be displayed that is.

[quote author=eleazzaar
* I don't see a need for a window navigation between "trade, loot, sell, steal, gamble".  These actions will be rarely available from the same object, i.e. if you click on a box or a corpse, you can only loot.   "Trade" and "Sell" should probably be the same interface, i don't see a reason to distinguish them.  This and especially gamble could be accessed via dialog.  "Steal" is should probably be an action you initiate against a person. 
[/quote]
yes, well, that wasn't intended as navigation. I put all the 'commands' or 'choices' together just to show that the window they will go with is the same.
So when you use your Pickpocket skill on someone this window pops up and you can select an item (or items) and then press 'steal'. Same with Looting and when you trade, again, you select the items you wish for, a running count of the price will be presented to the player in the/a feedback window and when they're ready they press Purchase or Barter. While you're selecting the NPCs items you can also select your own and their prices will be compared to the NPCs.


and the compass I didn't really include anywhere this time over because I really didn't know how it could be used in the game.
At first too, the GUI mockup I have at the Wiki, the compass was intended just as a skin, the display would display health or 'action points' or whatever
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eleazzaar
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« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 09:37:55 PM »

* I found the little text box crammed into the side of fallout's hud inadequate and annoying.  And if Zenbits has his way our calculations won't be nearly that simple.  We need more room for it.  I'd put that text readout in it's own box that can be resized, and it can be turned off when not wanted.
here I have to disagree, Fallout happens to be one of the only games where that text box never bothered me. I found that the messages added a lot to my gaming experience, I liked to examine everything, partly to get to know the world and partly to see what the developers didn't feel like working on Smiley

the resizing and hiding remark I with absolutely. I keep forgetting that the GUI does not have to be just static pop-up windows

I wasn't clear.  I don't have a problem with Fallout's text readout.  I have a problem with cramming the text into a box much too small.  That's why i'd like to see it in it's own resizable box, even if it's anchored to something else.  While we probably would have more room than Fallout, if the text was kept in the bar, i still it would be cramped.

* Character and Inventory screens should be separate, unless there is some compelling reason they need to be visible at once.  I think there will be too much info to fit at once anyway.
Why I put them together was because there are some statistics that the persons equipment changes one way or another, some resistances, be they location specific or not, encumbrance, some items may add to skills (a good set of lockpicks makes picking locks tons easier that just a hairpin) etc. So if that information should be available to the player one way or another then why not show the two screens together.

I get your point though I personally wouldn't be against scrolling if everything does not fit in one window.
But that depends on how much information there is going to be, information that's going to be displayed that is.

If you have to scroll, you still don't have everything on the screen at once, it's not necessarily better than flipping between two screens.  Though of course it's hard to say without knowing how much of the info overlaps, and how much scrolling would be involved

Alternatively whatever bits of info are relevant to both screens could be put in both.  For instance some of the info about encumbrance would probably be relevant to both, but the inventory screen would probably go into more detail.  Any basic stats you can effect with equipment should probably be listed on the inventory screen.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 09:52:31 PM by eleazzaar » Logged
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