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Author Topic: WIPs/Introductory - Blender user can help  (Read 15191 times)
simonced
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« on: July 19, 2009, 07:44:27 AM »

Hello,
I'm using blender (as a hobby) for few years and I can give time to help this project.
I'm looking at the setup scene in the SVN and have a question.
The orthographic camera is scaled at 1.45.
But I'm rendering the water tower from the repository and it doesn't fit the cam (of course).
I thought to set up the scale of the camera and then multiply the render output, then splitting the rendered picture with image magic for example is not hard I guess (have to script that).
My question is, can I change the scal of the cam to 1 and repositione it in the scene to keep the same look? Then it's easy to do scaled renders.
I'll post soon the water tower and I'll use the snow material from the repository to make a snowy version too. Then I'll start modeling buildings and other stuffs.

Thank you for your help, I'm still trying to optimise the blender workflow to generate big pics faster. Hope that'll help.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:28:12 PM by Gaspard » Logged
simonced
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2009, 08:12:27 AM »

I just realized I say a stupid thing.
Moving a camera in ortho mode does nothing.
So why not making the final render in a multiple of 1.45?

I mean the tile is 70x70 size and the camera scale is 1.45.
So the water tower fits in about a 6 scale camera size, then the render size should be :
6/1,45 = 4,13 ==> 5
70 * 5 = 350
Render in 350x350 should be ok, it's a multiple of 70.

Can someone validate this? Once it's ok, I'll study the ground tiles that seems the most needed. I have some experience with seamless textures, I'll say if I manage something.

[edit] : render attached.


* water_tower_rendu03.png (91.65 KB, 350x350 - viewed 510 times.)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2009, 08:20:39 AM by simonced » Logged
simonced
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2009, 09:42:23 AM »

Ok, 2 things.
Here is the snowy water tower test. What do you guys think?

I will make the snow cover the right side of the roof, it lacks of accuracy now.

I wanted to test and make some tiles, but I encounter a problem when I manualy tile them in gimp.
Please look at the screenshot.

How can we tile this?
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simonced
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 12:48:37 AM »

Ok, I got how to tile the things up, the guide lines in gimp didn't help in this case.
Here is the result :

If we zoom we can see little tiny joins.
I'll look for another method, this tile is a grass generated with bleder noise.
I thought procedural textures would make is easy to tile, but in fact it doesn't seem so easy.
The best should be to use blender to generate a texture and tile it in gimp, then uv it to the tile and render it.

What do you guys think? I feel little alone arround....
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 03:04:45 AM »

all that tech stuff is interesting but I'm a 3ds max user so its pretty useless for me.
But anyway, the water tower is good .
And don't despair, things are pretty slow on the art side these day.
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Zimble
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 07:51:32 AM »

Hello and welcome aboard.
I`m just back from my vacation and I hope I can help you because I recently ran into the same issues.
But It seems you already figured this stuff out by yourself so I just want to verify things.

regarding tile rendering
Please check out this part of the wiki: http://wiki.parpg.net/Graphics:Workflow_Simple_Tile#Camera_and_Rendering_Settings
Tile size should be 70x36px with 2px on each corner. But I think you figured this out already because your Gimp screenshot looks valid (the brown tile needs to go 1px up and 1px to the right)

Also be sure to disable the alpha channel (Check Key and rgb). This should get rid of the seams.

I also had no luck with the procedural textures in blender. I created a 150x150px seamless texture in PSP and used it in blender which resulted in a better output.

camera size
Check out: http://wiki.parpg.net/Graphics:Workflow#Rendering_setup
Don't move the camera, don't move the object.
Use a multiple of 1.414 for the camera size and use this multiple to set the rendering size.
Be sure to add 2px to the resulting rendering height when using the CatRom sampling filter.
CatRom sometimes produces better results (sharper) but may lead to artifacts/distortions in some situation (I sometimes have some strange red dots in the render output. Switching back to Mitch help most of the time)

Anyway, looks good to me what you produced already. Keep up the good work Smiley
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simonced
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 08:51:36 AM »

Thank you for the tips.
Yes,I figured out the tile size (70x36 2 pixels borders).
I think I'll keep mitch sampling because the Catroom one is really sharp, I had white dots on some edges.
I already read carefully the wiki about the blender setup.

Is there a list of already done tiles on the SVN or on the wiki I may get inspiration?
How many tiles do we need? I'll start for the transitions tiles too as they seem the most needed.

A question out of subject, I get a compilation error for FIFE, they ask to run in classic mode, how can I do that? In witch section can I post this section? My python version is 2.6.2.

Thank you.
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Zimble
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 09:31:27 AM »

Unfortunately I have to admit, that we have no tiles that I know of. I tried to make some snow tiles but had no luck so far.
Seamless snow tiles seems to be a real pita. My attempts so far can be found here

Hopefully you have more skill.

Inspiration:
Arcanum
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simonced
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 12:07:38 PM »

Here is a procedural snow.

I added a composite output to activate the RGBA output.
The modified blend file is here for instance.
http://simonced.freevar.com/_share/parpg/Graphics_Rendering_Setup.blend

Hope this helps.
I plane to make a small script that tiles automaticaly a given tile to check fastly the result...
Maybe we can composite it in blender? I'll investigate.
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simonced
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 02:04:16 PM »

Ok, I finished the tiling script that generates big pics from one tile.
It'll help to check the quality of the seams.
It depends on imagemagick and run in bash only for the moment.
If another interpreter is needed, ask me, I can try to make it in python why not.
Here is the script, not really optimized but working :
Quote
#!/bin/bash

echo "tile generator with ImageMagick"
echo "v0.1"
echo "==============================="

#width of one tile
tile_width=72
tile_height=36

#default output size multi
size_x=4
size_y=8

if [[ $1 == '' || $2 == '' ]]
then
   echo "USAGE : tiles_generator.sh <tile file> <destination file name to be created>"
   exit
fi

dimension_x=$(($tile_width*$size_x))
dimension_y=$(($tile_height*$size_y))
dimensions=$dimension_x"x"$dimension_y

#creation of the destination file
convert -size $dimensions xc:transparent $2

#let's merge the first tile to make a basic grid
for row in `seq 0 $(($size_y-1))`;
do
   offset_row=$(((($tile_height))*$row))
   for col in `seq 0 $(($size_x-1))`;
   do
      offset_col=$((($tile_width)*$col))
      composite $1 -geometry +$offset_col+$offset_row $2 $2
   done
done

#last overlays, using the final pic as pattern
offset_x=$((($tile_width)/2))
offset_y=$((($tile_height)/2))
echo "offsets = $offset_x $offset_y"
for row in `seq 0 $(($size_y-1))`;
do
   offset_row=$((($tile_height)*$row+$offset_y))
   for col in `seq 0 $(($size_x-1))`;
   do
      offset_col=$(($tile_width*$col+$offset_x))
      composite $1 -geometry +$offset_col+$offset_row $2 $2
   done
done


echo "done"

Example of use : ./tiles_generator.sh tile_snow_01.png test.png
The test.png will be generated from the tile_snow_01.png file.
the single tile HAS to be already transparent.

Please tell me if you think it's usefull?
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shevegen
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 03:08:08 PM »

- Cant say anything about the shell script since I refuse to use and learn shell stuff Smiley
(I used ruby since 5 years, and now I am learning python for parpg)

- The calculations confuse me but this is because my brain has given up on maths a
long time ago Tongue

- I like the water tower. One small point of critique is that the white-blue transition seems
a bit weird for me. Is it snow, water or ice? Come to think about it, I believe we could
use snow and ice in general much more readily - lets get barra to include those
things in the graphics section as showcase Smiley


Quote
What do you guys think? I feel little alone arround....
Yeah not only you Tongue
I think the team needs slight restructuring to continue faster.

How difficult (or how long does it take) is it to create tiles which are "frozen" with ice, or
slightly snow covered? I just try to picture an area around that water tower
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 05:01:06 PM »

I think the team needs slight restructuring to continue faster.
its a bit unrealistic during the summer if you ask me.
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simonced
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 01:40:09 AM »

Ok, I did a small test to render local ground with transition.

It took about 1 hour to set it up, but now I got the trick, it can be really faster.

The shadow is cut. I used the scal of the cam only and didn't move cam or objects, but I'm afraid it'll generate really big pictures...

I used a temporary cgtexture for the ground.
We should also make a repository of the textures used (when not procedural).
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Zimble
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 08:29:04 AM »

Uh, that looks good. You really need to teach me some tricks, when you have the time.

I need to catch you on irc and then you're doomed to answer my stupid questions Tongue
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simonced
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 08:39:40 AM »

Thanks Zimble, glad you like it, here are my tricks:

I used a node material to fuse 2 separates materials.
The snow (from the repository) and one sample ground with a texture from cgtextues for the moment.
Then I used the vertex paint on the tile mesh (subdivide it 6 or 7 times to get enought details in the painting).
In the node of the material, I simply join the 2 materials with a mix node, and use the vertex color of the geometry as a mix value. Here is a pic, better that thouthand words lol :
http://simonced.freevar.com/_share/parpg/mix_node_setup.png

We can chat on IRc, but I live in Japan, so, I don't really know about the time of your area.
Happy blendering.

PS : we can sharpen the transition by reapproching the ends of the color band, I'll give it a try, and also to add some relief to the transition.
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