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Author Topic: Main Story Arc idea - "Encroachment of Ice Age"  (Read 66441 times)
tie
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 03:03:58 PM »

Never played Timecop tbh. The idea would obviously be no good if it is already presented there in the same way tho.

You are right that referenecing transitory contemporary stuff is not good. This is why it would be an aim to reference stuff that would last. Example good references IMO - Beatles, Star Wars, Dirty Harry, G W Bush, Microsoft, etc - there are more than enough of these. I don't think any of these will be forgotten in the forseable future. Bad example - "Rhianna's boyfriend giving her a beating" (I have a hard time thinking about outright bad examples).

Note that this is just an idea about the setting/prologue, and to some extent about an important (e.g one of the main?) plot arcs. It doesn't lock the starting year or most of the other setting in any major way.

I forgot to mention what I am concerned about in the initial Main story arc idea described by zenbitz. Simply put, the winters getting colder and colder does not strike me as a particulary interesting problem to solve, from a player's perspective. Following this questline would be the main reason for the player to play the game, so it should start with something sudden and unexpected right off the bat.  My biased .02 EUR Smiley
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shanxi
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2009, 03:11:12 PM »

As I recently learned, the winters wouldn't get colder and colder indefinitely.  A nuclear winter would certainly be over after around 20 years.
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Gaspard
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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2009, 05:26:34 PM »

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1281171.html

check it out
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zenbitz
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2009, 12:58:54 AM »

tie - I could work with that if the writing team really found it superior.  But you can't play as Mad Max then.  Boo.

shanxi - The idea, if you read carefully is that Nuclear Winter _triggers_ an new Ice Age.   This is only borderline plausible, but that's a hell of alot better than most games.  It's as least as sound as "The Day After Tomorrow" where GLOBAL WARMING triggers an _instantaneous_ ice age.

(I know -it's based on a theory of the halocline collapse... but more current simulations suggest that - while cooling the northern hemisphere slightly, it is still swamped by overall warming)
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tie
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2009, 01:39:10 PM »

zenbitz - with the time machine theme, we can't pretend the PC is "native" to the setting. I think this can actually make it more fun, and a bit different from the other PA games. Plus, there is a ready explanation for the superiority of the PC over the other inhabitants - our hero simply comes from a more advanced age.

All this being said, and although I like the time machine idea, I am not really stuck with it. So if you guys don't like it, just say so, and I'll drop the subject Smiley

I still do think that we should work on the motivation and the events that pushed our hero into the main quest line.
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shanxi
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2009, 04:27:23 PM »

I'm not too keen on the time travel idea, purely because I think it would be more fun for the character to know roughly what he's doing rather than stumbling around blindly in an entirely unfamiliar world.

As for the motivation, I like the idea of stopping an ice age.  How about using some kind of reverse ice-nine plot device, a polymorph of water developed by soviet scientists that lowers the freezing point of water by a few degrees, just enough to melt the ice and reverse the ice age.
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eleazzaar
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2009, 07:02:25 AM »

I do like the idea of emphasizing "nature is the enemy".  That doesn't necessarily mean it should be the main plot.  In fact, Here you'll find me arguing that there shouldn't be a main plot.  I'd think of it more as a pervasive theme throughout quests and mechanics.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 07:39:24 AM by eleazzaar » Logged
zenbitz
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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2009, 09:14:03 PM »

I do like the idea of emphasizing "nature is the enemy".  That doesn't necessarily mean it should be the main plot.  In fact, Here you'll find me arguing that there shouldn't be a main plot.  I'd think of it more as a pervasive theme throughout quests and mechanics.

I think I am getting on board with this...
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GarfunkeL
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« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 02:18:40 AM »

How much do we want to run with the whole 'Nuclear Winter' idea? Recent papers have shown that even the dinosaur killer meteorite didn't produce quite as bad a nuclear winter as Carl Sagans old weather models predicted.

Here is an in-depth analysis why Nuclear Winter isn't scientifically really probable. The guy who writes there ("Stuart") used to work in USAF SAC and what he writes correlates with the 1987 study from Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Based on that, there would be more like a nuclear autumn for a few years, instead of actual winter and freezing.

On the other hand, This study says the opposite. And then there's THIS article which combines the results from various new studies in 2006 and 2007. Only caveat at that paper is that its written with a clear agenda: complete elimination of nuclear weapons, so there might be little hand waving and wrangling around.

Anyway, we can't really take either of these scenarios as the basis of the game. First scenario does not produce enviroment hostile enough for game-purposes, while latter makes it so hostile that there is no possibility for civilization in Scandinavia. Middle-road, middle-road.
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eleazzaar
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« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 03:28:49 AM »

Anyway, we can't really take either of these scenarios as the basis of the game. First scenario does not produce enviroment hostile enough for game-purposes, while latter makes it so hostile that there is no possibility for civilization in Scandinavia. Middle-road, middle-road.

Yeah ultimately we need to pick or mix-n-match the theory that produces the results we want.  We can't go with something that would realistically kill everyone in scandinavia.  Of course, since this isn't exactly earth, we don't have to feel too bad that the facts don't quite match.  But ideally we go with something as plausible as possible.  Preferably something that can't be debunked by a 6th grade kid that's attentive in science class--- like much sci-fi stuff.


Crazy Idea:  What if the moderate nuclear winter was caused by a doomsday weapon design particularly to create nuclear winter... like microscopic, highly reflective chaff launched high enough to stay up there.  Perhaps it was the weapon of an equatorial or near-equatorial nation
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DK
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« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 03:46:24 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4796909.stm

one thing that I am increasingly seeing in the press is on water shortage.. am sure this will increase tensions in real life.
can we insert this 50 years ago from now and add it to war causes and can maybe change the sociologcal landscapes (migration will grow)
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zenbitz
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« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 05:50:39 AM »


Yeah ultimately we need to pick or mix-n-match the theory that produces the results we want.  We can't go with something that would realistically kill everyone in scandinavia.  Of course, since this isn't exactly earth, we don't have to feel too bad that the facts don't quite match.  But ideally we go with something as plausible as possible.  Preferably something that can't be debunked by a 6th grade kid that's attentive in science class--- like much sci-fi stuff.

Precisely.  In fact, the two bracketing scenarios seem to indicate that we are on reasonably stable theoretical ground here.

Quote
Crazy Idea:  What if the moderate nuclear winter was caused by a doomsday weapon design particularly to create nuclear winter... like microscopic, highly reflective chaff launched high enough to stay up there.  Perhaps it was the weapon of an equatorial or near-equatorial nation

Cute, but we still need to plaster major cities to save poor level designers.
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GarfunkeL
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« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 06:51:54 PM »

War will start over Able Archer 83 which was the nearest that world came to nuclear war after Cuban crisis of 62.

I'm still searching and compiling OOBs for both sides, once that is done, I'll get writing.
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zenbitz
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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2009, 06:34:38 AM »

As long as soviets invade western europe (actually scandavia in particular) I am OK with Able Archer.
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DK
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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2009, 06:09:45 PM »

how about this for mass death.. russians spread slow-working virus/disease with them that they don't know about til 5 years down the line and 2/3rds of the surviving population are diagnosed terminally ill.
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