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16  Development / Programming / Scripting system feedback on: February 19, 2012, 03:09:13 PM
From what I understand, the scripting system uses now combined python and yaml syntax. Some of names are pythonic things.with.many.dots pointing into certain data structure.
From what I understand, there is set of conditions defined and (re-)action defined later.
Possible actions are (for now): ChangeMap,  Open, Close, Unlock, Lock, ExamineItem, Examine, Look, Read, Talk, Use, PickUp, DropFromInventory, BrewBeer, ExamineContents, RunScript, Say, None.

Now, what I'd imagine as a scripting system would be something a bit more robust (and simpler).
I'd rather see it as a tool comparable to what is javascript in web browser - basically "can do anything". Add a button to the GUI, add a stat to PC's set, add an NPC, modify it's behavior... We can even "borrow" an existing language - this may be anything (even python itself), as long, as it is really simple. I mean as simple, as for example Ren'Py is. (example code to be found here: http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/doc/tutorials/Quickstart ).
Will it be easy or hard - no clues.

As for extending our current language - I'd add tests (like when jumping above a creek), more interactions with NPCs (fighting, stealing, making NPCs behave in a certain way, like dropping an item), and also extend it by whole lot - as said before.

What do you think about it?

17  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Todo List for "final" release on: February 19, 2012, 02:07:57 PM
Snowman - here you go Cheesy You can't be more hopeless than that!
18  General Category / Meetings / Re: Meeting Proposal - Sat 25. Februar 2012 OR the Saturday afterwards (or Friday? on: February 18, 2012, 09:49:24 AM
I'd make it a bit different:
let's chat through the week, brainstorm any ideas, sort them all out in terms of pre- and post-release and pre- and post-having parpg.net infrastructure running.
This should produce two set of topics to be discussed: what do we want to do at all and when if we do. Those could be discussed in detail.
Third and fourth are the future shape of the project (that is dealing without the hosting) and the future shape of the game.

I'm simply afraid that even having 4 hour long meeting window won't lead to any consensus if we won't brainstorm for days before.

I'll be available at any time on 24-26 Feb, apart from the time you guys wouldn't attend either. My proposal is having it between 20 and 22 GMT on Saturday, and if needed - same time on Sunday. Just a proposal.
19  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Meeting on: February 18, 2012, 09:35:36 AM
Why there are two topics on the same subject? Should I remove this one?
20  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Todo List for "final" release on: February 17, 2012, 11:38:44 PM
I'll start a similar list for post-release.
21  General Category / General Discussion / Re: Todo List for "final" release on: February 17, 2012, 11:37:25 PM
wikify, not forumize
I'd ask Beliar if he'll manage to do the fighting - it may be as simple as killing with a first blow, as long as the fact of killing is expressed in a (yaml?) file we can mend later.
But it may be too much to do in a month. It's whole fighting mode - with rules (turn-based), gui (?) and so on.
Snowman - just do a photo from the right angle if you do a real one.
22  General Category / General Discussion / General direction before "the end" on: February 17, 2012, 12:52:59 PM
Thumbs up for the release. Deadline is quite tight, but I think it's quite possible.

We have to know what to write while releasing. My proposal is to write:
Description (what was the project, how it evolved)
Why it was closed
What parts failed
Scavenge instructions (what can be taken, who did what, what parts are in reusable state)
Possible future of the project

Most important question for now is: who's in for the bumpy ride "after the end", and do you think that's enough crew members to push things forward? Second question is what parts of the big thing should be trimmed down to produce a playable game ASAP? We might as well use the release to regroup and start to build lacking infrastructure without the bloats and caveats that were holding us down. Same with code, docs, everything. Problem is we'll be in best shape starting now, and mending things step by step, using our current resources (docs, communication channels and so on) as a base, rather than waiting for the end of 2012.

I'll be missing the blog, the wiki and the forums mostly. Planet was a great help sometimes, so was our FTP (at least for me it was quite useful). Not sure about where to host all those things, images from the wiki are probably the heaviest. (Not sure about what Arx people are going to do.)

I'm not really sure how to replace the blog, but we could introduce a mailinglists instead of the forums and move important docs (from wiki and forums) into PARPG code tree itself. We should probably empty out codesion and move our "source media files" to a place like OpenGameArt, that will host it and make other projects benefit from it as well. Maybe some writing should go there, I dunno (but who would, in the end?). Trac would probably contribute to "why we've fail" part, dunno if we should keep the tickets, but it's not me to decide.

In the end - well, let's get loud this one time!
23  Development / Programming / Re: Using an intermediate language for data AND code? on: February 17, 2012, 12:14:33 PM
I think whole point of data-driven engines in our component-based approach is to put as much of the structure of the project into data files, as possible. YAML in our case.

So that by playing with data you can pretty much develop a game: adding/removing things from map, influence how items are crafted or how NPC behaves, add or remove a stat from the mechanics or change the levels that PC needs to "level up" a given ability.

I guess YAML is simple enough for non-coders, yet it will make cooperation - both in designers group and between designers and programmers - rather smooth and easy.

Whole point, as I understand it, is to put all the logic in python files, and all the data the logic is fed with - in text files. So that programmers will focus more, for example, on how entities communicate when one is trying to hit another while fighting (the thing you don't want to see, shevy), while designers will figure out what RPG mechanics will be applied in case of such event (I guess that's what you're interested in).
24  General Category / General Discussion / Re: What will be a blog post on: February 16, 2012, 11:24:01 PM
Thumbs up for cleaning and wrapping it all up. We'll probably make some noise this way, so I'd rather do it well before shutting down the domain. I'm still hoping we can regroup and do something smaller with more success in terms of playability, but my will has nothing to do, since I won't code nothing - at least not well.
25  General Category / General Discussion / Re: What will be a blog post on: February 16, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
I remember (and kept in mind) us chatting about you want to cease the hosting in 2012. Please make sure zenbitz will have a copy of the wiki database, as he asked for it on several occasions.

I don't see the story to be similar to FMF really. All that we've failed to do so far was rather minor mistakes, like some misfortunate beta soft going in the way, sprinting in general, or minor repo glitches. Some conclusions, correct ones, were made pretty late though (things like generated content, component-based system). So yes, the initial ideas were inadequate to how development looks like, but I think there were proposed  (through last year) some ideas that would make those blockers excluded, changed or bypassed.

What is common though is that we haven't tried hard enough to attract programmers here and move obstacles out of their way. FLARE and Freedroid are currently dealing better, both having single devoted person who happens (AFAIK) to be a coder.

Well, I guess the time to start scavenge feast is quite close, I hope we'll make it in PARPG style!

(har har har  Wink )
  
26  General Category / General Discussion / Re: What will be a blog post on: February 15, 2012, 09:56:42 PM
It's not about directing things, but about doing them in the first place. I think this is where we personally have quite different points of view, so let me elaborate (and I ask you for the same thing). This crew counts one active dev now, namely Beliar, just because all the others are waiting for green light. For a single dev, the direction is not quite what he might expect, but rather few pairs of helping hands instead. The blueprint is laid out far into future, and there is plenty of equally important work waiting piled all over the place.

I'm not quite sure what you call a release either. If this is the kind of event that TD was - there is no one to dress appropriately, no one to clean the house, no Christmas tree,  no one to sit at the table with, or sing carols, no guests to celebrate it with. Like three or four men in total.

What used to was planned as our TD2, or post-second-spint, then no, no such thing may happen. In context of how PARPG code looks and works now, targets and shapes of a release were never defined to stat with.
However, I think we have build system working (Beliar, please correct me if I'm wrong), so wrapping up a couple of "compiled" files is not longer a big problem it used to be.

As or the "death" or "life" of the project - we're at slow speed, busy with other things, but all of us currently active folks - that is shevy, Beliar and me, are doing something from time to time. Our stuff, not interfering o disturbing each other. Last major stuff in terms of code happened just month ago - that is restructuring repos. You can call this death, I can say we're quite lively and enthusiastic, the crew is just damn small.

I'd rather ask Beliar for what he thinks about the state of the project in terms of it being ready or not for additional coders, depth of component structure and state of the build system before doing anything in terms of recruitment or the release.

I have also no clues what you call "picking up". This project runs without any leader since Technomage left, and I think, as for headless creature far past it's decapitating, we did quite a lot - most of it by a single par of programming hands.
Beliar, at least from what I understand without analyzing all the commits, pretty much cleaned the project after the sprint in terms of getting the code back to work. Also we have untangled repositories and component-based structure, both of those are really important not only from single programmer's POV, but for smooth cooperation as well.

Now, if someone would want to pick it up, he o she may do it without any declaration, not even asking us for permission. For some reason, probably just because how the world works,  nothing like that happens for a second year now. And it won't change by declaration, I'm afraid.
27  General Category / General Discussion / Re: What will be a blog post on: February 15, 2012, 02:28:42 PM
How would such serious effort look like? Posting info wherever possible?

Beliar, from what I understand, rewrote major part of code into component-based architecture, which should make co-work a breeze for coders, and in the future, for game designers. Also we have new repositories, this will hopefully solve some issues with our former repo architecture that made installing a PITA.
So I think it's nothing wrong with saying we're much better prepared, than we were last time we've tried to get things back up to speed (in all aspects but manpower to handle newcomers, which I can help with).
28  General Category / General Discussion / Re: What will be a blog post on: February 13, 2012, 08:53:55 AM
Well, we're freezing. Pretty much alive, but not really moving to fast.
29  General Category / General Discussion / Re: IT IS DAMN COLD HERE on: February 05, 2012, 12:19:32 AM
BTW, I almost went hypothermic in mid-September, in +15C rainy and windy night. Just because of me, the clumsiest of all the people I know, spilling some water inside my sleeping bag, with whole forest literally soaking wet around me.

Most people die of cold in above freezing conditions, neglecting or being unable to care about warm clothes and good nourishment (and good shelter in case of tourists and homeless people).
30  General Category / General Discussion / Re: IT IS DAMN COLD HERE on: February 05, 2012, 12:12:23 AM
I think PARPG winter would be like -40C and 2-3m of snow. It kinda feels better when it's really cold - dry air insulates better, dry walls as well. And snow.

The temperatures you have there are peskiest of all - not really the kind of cold that makes you immobile, closer with whatever keeps you warm, nor it kills all the bacteria (shops, etc.). You think you're not restricted, you can go, do something, and you go back with running nose and cold feet.
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