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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: shevegen on January 24, 2010, 08:24:31 PM



Title: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 24, 2010, 08:24:31 PM
The meeting will start at 15:30 GMT , Saturday (which is tomorrow).

Hope a lot of you have a few minutes at least even if it is just to say HI!









Obviously barra does not have the time necessary right now to commit to PARPG.
Hopefully he comes back, but for now we have to get more structure into the project.

PARPG was struggling in activity since some weeks. Some people seem to be completely absent for the time being (i.e. Kaydeth).

It's like on a battlefield, we suffered severe casualties, the remaining warriors are wounded and demotivated, and we now have to regroup before we can launch the final attack!

Zenbitz and maximinus think that I have to step up. I don't necessarily want to, especially as I don't really have the time to do so, but I see it as an "interim lead" until barra comes back - hopefully.

I am not sure when to do this meeting. Coming Saturday?

11:00 pm GMT or perhaps more or less. Hmm. Edit: Before 11:00 pm GMT seems to be better.

Please reply fast, I update my thread and then the IRC channel, possibly.




--------------------------------
So far people:
--------------------------------
egalor: start on 9:00 GMT Saturday (that's London time, right?) and to finish in two hours. If it's not possible, I'll consider other suggestions.

zenbitz: 1600 - 0800 GMT for a meeting start, I think.  Not both though!

barraAway: won't be available after 6PM GMT

dave: can't make it

Saritor: may join from his mobile, but probably will have a difficult time discussing :D

Artifice: seems to have time, let's see what preference he has

Vaporice: seems to have time, has no real preference when exactly

Q_x: has time, will be there. great!

amo-ej1: will try to attend, but has busy schedule so it is quite unsure if he can

maximinus: not sure ?

Zimble: can't make it but sends best wishes :) (I want a cookie!)

shevy: hmm, i have no real preference but quite obviously I have to attend ;)
I didn't make up my mind yet... still want to retrieve more data. Tomorrow I guess we will have to finalize it. Right now though my personal preference
would be to have barra in the meeting at least for a few last words, so it should perhaps be before 6PM GMT. :-) Hmm let's see.

Hmm sirren ... gaspard ... and loads more probably have no time. but i think we already have quite some guys participating, would have been bad to be all alone ;-)


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Q_x on January 24, 2010, 09:54:32 PM
Le roi est mort? I think Barra will be back here soon, don't worry!
Shevy, IMO you're most energetic, enthusiastic person here.
I still cannot believe maximinus came up with this strange time. I will be there, at least I'll try to be there within first hour or two.
I hope it isn't too late/early for our East Europe (and Middle East) team members.
Maybe we can prepare a kind of list of topics to be discussed so that everybody can tell what they think immediately (I often think very slowly :))? If so - completeness and usefulness of http://wiki.parpg.net/General_Inventory_List (http://wiki.parpg.net/General_Inventory_List) would be my pebble to this pile, good introductory activity place for greenhorns.

I know - FLOSS development is a process where one wants to have his hands as dirty, as possible, and noone actually wants to direct. :/

BTW: shouldn't this thread go to "Meetings" subforum?


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: zenbitz on January 24, 2010, 10:28:36 PM
I should be able to make it, Jan 30th. 

It would be nice if we could get someone with backup admin privileges on the various sites.

We nominated you Shevy because you are the one who is so concerned about everything.   Also, you don't have another job (except Janitor)


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 25, 2010, 03:58:57 AM
I still cannot believe maximinus came up with this strange time.

Did I come up with this strange time? That's very early morning for me (yawn!). We could try 11 AM, if you like, or even an hour later.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Q_x on January 25, 2010, 09:00:04 AM
maximinus, it was you, and we have this logged ;)
I'm worried what Gaspard will say, thats all.
Both 11 p.m. and a.m. are OK for me


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 25, 2010, 12:15:15 PM
maximinus, it was you, and we have this logged ;)

Bah! :o It's not like it HAS to be held at this time, I mean move it if it causes major problems for other people.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: egalor on January 25, 2010, 12:39:31 PM
Dammit guys, I'm still keeping an eye on you. Please don't abandon this great project. Barra will certainly come back, he's not sort of that person that could call it quits all of a sudden (AFAIK).

I believe he must have some issues in real life.



Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Vaporice on January 25, 2010, 01:45:39 PM
Upcomming saturday is fine for me ;D I'll guess i'll be avaible througout the whole day so for me any time is ok


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 25, 2010, 02:22:17 PM
Dammit guys, I'm still keeping an eye on you. Please don't abandon this great project. Barra will certainly come back, he's not sort of that person that could call it quits all of a sudden (AFAIK).

Barra's not quit, he's looked at the boards in the last few days, but obviously for real-life reasons he's not been around for a couple of weeks. Now we can all sit around and scratch our collective asses, or move on. We don't need to wait for barra, and there are some issues - lack of activity - right now that need to be dealt with.

Obviously we can't deal with a 'lack of activity' problem by not doing anything! So don't worry, we're just running things while barra is away.

One more thing: any programmers feel free to chime in, but from the code dept I'd say we need to assign the trac tickets that are currently open for the tech demo to get them resolved, and then perhaps on where future work need to be headed.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 26, 2010, 02:06:20 PM
Any other departments want to post an agenda to discuss?


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 26, 2010, 03:36:21 PM
We started a draft for things that need be discussed.

http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2010/01/30

Please add more stuff you would like to have discussed, either here (preferrable), or right at the wiki (ok as well, we will use that as reference when on IRC)

Meeting will be this Saturday, time is not yet 100% decided. If you can't make, don't worry, but if you are bored please do join. We absolutely need people who get to be active.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: mvBarracuda on January 27, 2010, 01:10:23 PM
Thanks a bunch for organizing the meeting you guys! I've slightly reworked the wiki article.

30th of January is fine with me. I'll mail all devs in a minute so they can chime in and let us know if they can make it and what time they would prefer. This said: I'm okay with anything if it's not later than 6PM GMT. Furthermore I'll have to leave at 8PM GMT (not a minute later) because I have an important appointment this evening. I would be fine with meeting around 1PM GMT so maximinus can make it but we'll have to see if any North-America-based devs plan to attend the meeting. Got the feeling that it will hard to find a meeting time that suits Maximinus and the guys from NA :-/

Let's see who plans to be around.

EDIT: one note concerning leadership. While I'm back for now, I can say that the lack of other active developers in the project management department has contributed to my lack of recent motivation. So I would love to see you getting more involved in project management so we can split up tasks a bit shevy.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: zenbitz on January 28, 2010, 12:23:51 AM
I cannot make it before 1600 GMT on Saturday.   Although I guess I could do it at 0700 or 0800 GMT Saturday. "Friday night" for me.

It's probably better than Europe + Max is there, since I am the only active member of my two departments, I can be communicated with privately...



Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: mvBarracuda on January 28, 2010, 01:21:24 PM
Mailed every registered forums user with a valid email address about the meeting. Sorry to the ones who don't care about the meeting but this was simply the easiest and fastest option and this meeting is so important that this kind of mass mailing approach is justified in this exceptional case.

Let me know in case you want to take part in the meeting state WHEN you would have time at Saturday. I'll announce an official meeting time, tomorrow at Friday, 29th of January, 6PM GMT.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: saritor on January 28, 2010, 02:30:50 PM
Hey all,

First off I apologize for dropping off the face of the planet for nearly two months now! First holidays started eating into my free time and then other unfortunate life changes happened shortly thereafter.

I don't expect my availability to have a huge sway on the time slot for the meeting either due to my absence, but I will try to be there. I know that I already have plans to be out of town on the 30th, but I am hoping to be able to at least listen in from my mobile if I am on the road to IRC. I will also try to get back into IRC before then and see if I can play catch up with some folks there.

~Saritor


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: egalor on January 28, 2010, 02:35:56 PM
I'd like to participate. My preference would be to start on 9:00 GMT Saturday (that's London time, right?) and to finish in two hours. If it's not possible, I'll consider other suggestions.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Dave Matney on January 28, 2010, 03:47:50 PM
I won't be able to make the meeting, as I'll probably be sleeping off the excitement that was the Global Game Jam.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Artifice on January 28, 2010, 05:00:24 PM
Ugh...meetings? If I wanted meetings I'd get a real job!  ;)

Actually, I've been in meetings pretty solid for the last two weeks, which has contributed to my lack of activity on PARPG. That said, I think it's a fine idea and I'll make the time to attend whenever you guys decide works best.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: mvBarracuda on January 28, 2010, 05:17:44 PM
Alrighty, keep em coming. I'll take all notes into account and will set a time for the meeting in stone tomorrow.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 28, 2010, 07:03:22 PM
Ok, I should now be able to do blog updates so hopefully I can make good use of that.

We soon have to decide on a time for starting the meeting. I'd like to talk to zenbitz and maximinus here since honestly these two are big powerhorses and we could need their input on IRC - maximinus just is so far away ... :D

Anyway, give me a few hours to review the available options for the time.

--------------------------------
So far people:
--------------------------------
egalor: start on 9:00 GMT Saturday (that's London time, right?) and to finish in two hours. If it's not possible, I'll consider other suggestions.

zenbitz: 1600 - 0800 GMT for a meeting start, I think.  Not both though!

barraAway: won't be available after 6PM GMT

dave: can't make it

Saritor: may join from his mobile, but probably will have a difficult time discussing :D

Artifice: seems to have time, let's see what preference he has

Vaporice: seems to have time, has no real preference when exactly

Q_x: has time, will be there. great!

amo-ej1: will try to attend, but has busy schedule so it is quite unsure if he can

maximinus: has time near ~ 10:30 am-3:00 pm and 11:00 pm-12:00 pm (the latter one is in the morning)

Zimble: can't make it but sends best wishes :) (I want a cookie!)

shevy: hmm, i have no real preference but quite obviously I have to attend ;)
I didn't make up my mind yet... still want to retrieve more data. Tomorrow I guess we will have to finalize it. Right now though my personal preference
would be to have barra in the meeting at least for a few last words, so it should perhaps be before 6PM GMT. :-) Hmm let's see.

Hmm sirren ... gaspard ... and loads more probably have no time. but i think we already have quite some guys participating, would have been bad to be all alone ;-)


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: zenbitz on January 28, 2010, 07:14:31 PM
I am available 1600 - 0800 GMT for a meeting start, I think.  Not both though! 


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: amo-ej1 on January 28, 2010, 08:47:09 PM
I'll do my best to attend, but my schedules are really unpredictable ...


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Zimble on January 28, 2010, 10:02:06 PM
Although I'm really curious how things are going in parpg (obviously not so well :( ) I can't make it to the meeting.
Sister's birthday and acquiring some new vic...customers on some fair keep me busy the whole weekend.


Best wishes, Zimble


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Q_x on January 29, 2010, 09:32:29 AM
Quote
Q_x: not sure ?
Don't worry, as an old-school raider I will be there anyway. I have this weekend totally free.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 29, 2010, 12:49:19 PM
I'll be on IRC as much as I can on Saturday, realistically that will be 10:30 am -  3:00 pm and 11:00 pm - 12:00 pm (that latter one is in the morning so i can't be exact with the times)


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 29, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
The meeting will start at Saturday, 15:30 GMT (so 16:30 for us in germany, austria etc...)

For time zones and clocks:
http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/

I know this is not optimal at all, most either seemed to have wanted to have it started at like 08:00/09:00 GMT, or very late. It kinda sucks. ;-)

Very late means that barra can't attend, very early means that a few others can't make it, although very early might actually be better.

Anyway, time to set it in stone and hope that at least a few guys can show up.

If the time really absolutely sucked, we will know afterwards but we really must have a meeting even if only few can attend.

PS: California is GMT-8? That would mean that it would be very early for zenbitz? Oh well, guess that time sucks for him ... :(

Anyway, the meeting will start at 15:30 GMT and last for around 45-90 minutes (45-60 seems optimal), but I hope it will be open-ended so that people continue to talk about it. I'll keep the wiki updated as we discuss along it.

Hopefully this way even other guys can join later and chime into the discussion.

The main purpose of the meeting is to look into the future and discuss what needs to be changed. Hopefully barra can say a few words as well as he'll be unavailable for quite some time lateron.

It's my first try at a meeting so be lenient :P


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: zenbitz on January 29, 2010, 11:51:17 PM
which of you is making me coffee?


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on January 30, 2010, 02:17:56 AM
That's preety late, you'll get me for about 15 minutes then it'll be bedtime!


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 30, 2010, 09:44:27 AM
Just join earlier maximinus :D

Actually I thought you would already sleep anyway.

Hmm freenode seems to have problems right now... I can't even change my nickname...


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 30, 2010, 06:10:15 PM
Ok, the meeting is just finished, but I would like to write a few things.

First up - thanks to all who could make it. We had both zenbitz and maximinus!

Both had crazy times (maximinus had to go to bed, zenbitz just woke up)

I do wonder if we will ever again have such a crazy meeting, maximinus only gets a bit more than 5 hours sleep at such a time for the meeting ... :/  at least zenbitz had coffee when waking up hah.

Anyway, I would like to write down a few things for next time:

- Every meeting has its own wiki page, which is good. However, some items are hard to talk about. For example, the move to FIFE 0.3.0 - I really am quite clueless about this. Barra detailed a bit more at the end of the meeting, but we should have pushed this more into the beginning of the meeting when maximinus was still awake.

So my conclusion is:
(x) Most important things should be mentioned first AND should be listed in the wiki first (from top to bottom)
(x) If you are going to talk about something, you should be prepared to write a few sentences. The more you can write, the easier it is for others to chime in and help in the discussion.

We'll probably be without barra for at least 2 months, and we agreed to have at the very least one more meeting, but most likely at least two meetings during those 2 months. So, if anyone wants to say something which could be improved, just say so!


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Artifice on January 30, 2010, 08:11:18 PM
Hey all, sorry for missing the meeting. I was actually up in time, but mother nature conspired against me. We're in the middle of a massive ice storm and I lost a tree early this morning that landed on the house. No major damage, but it was resting on the power lines, meaning I had to have the power cut until I could get it removed. Strangely, my wife was more concerned with this than me making the meeting..  :P

Anyway, hope it went well. At the very least I'm hopeful it will start a dialog on the boards about the details of what comes next.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on January 31, 2010, 02:10:45 AM
One of the most important outcomes is that we will have a deadline for the techdemo.

10th March 2010

After that we'll push back the importance of the techdemo. Either we are done with it, or we aren't. But the main idea behind this is that we really need an influx of new active people AND a boost in activity for the whole project.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Gaspard on January 31, 2010, 04:11:53 PM
Hey guys. Yup, I missed the meeting too.
I'm on a school break right now, but I'm in my hometown away from a stable Internet connection and my tools - tablet and scanner and friend's camera.

In short - offline. I've been trying to make a comeback and managed to make a bunch of portraits in 24 hours a while back, but I had my exam session right after that and had to move apartments and juggle some other personal stuff at the same time. Interesting times indeed.

I have not lost interest in the project - I'm just that busy with everything else right now. My schedules change like the weather in Estonia and sometimes when I see a three-week free time zone something can come up unexpectedly and also during a very busy period I might find that I'm altogether done with all my assignments and tasks and thus able to contribute to the project  :-\


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on February 01, 2010, 02:16:12 AM
Good to hear you're still around Gaspard. Could you possibly read the logs of the meeting and give your views on what we discussed?


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: shevegen on February 01, 2010, 03:33:43 AM
Yo Gaspard just take your time.


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: Gaspard on February 01, 2010, 10:11:55 AM
Heh, I've got a whole sentient bookmark tree for the PARPG web pages weaving itself through the wiki and forums and trac like a parasitic vegetable - whenever I go online with my own computer I see whether there's been any action here. I wouldn't go through all that trouble if I didn't give a damn ,)

I read through the logs yesterday and don't have too much to add. All in all there weren't too many people present, graphics dept. was absent altogether (at least during the meeting itself). So I'll just comment and repeat what's already been said. Just. In my own words.

The date that was set for the tech-demo sounds reasonable, taking into account the current liveliness of the whole community.

I do not want to say anything about the programming dept, I could wrap my mind around it if I took the time, but I've wisely avoided doing that so far. I'll try to revise the portraits I've made when I get back and pipe in with the GUI skins that seem to have finally gotten some attention again.

I'm starting to think that it's slowly becoming a problem that we don't have
a) any seriously interested Writers (yes, capital W) or
b) anybody else willing to spend all project-related time on that (which is very much unreasonable, because anybody who's still active has got their hands full with plenty of tasks already).
The story we're going for is of a difficult genre - it shouldn't be too epic, though it might take place in a pretty large setting, furthermore the setting itself is rather... specific. On our hands we've got a realistic quasi alt. history post apocalyptic world twenty years after the apocalypse itself :) Right now there are no writers. Aside from zenbitz, who's like the ├╝bermensch singlehandedly carrying the writing and mechanics dept's on his very shoulders, meanwhile contributing feedback and suggestions to other dept's as well. It would be cool if we could find a new member who'd be willing to add to the present location and build from that or even take the Writing reins altogether in their own hands and make it their domain.

The Project Leader and Manager position presently 'held' by mvBarracuda is an important one, but I see that shevegen is doing a great job keeping the forums and wiki going and ready to step up whenever we're going to need somebody to publish a bit of information on the blog or a demo or a.. whole finished game or whatever. I guess some tasks could be temporarily divided between other members of the team too. Advertising on online writing communities wouldn't be too bad of an idea and the Graphics dept. might need a wake-up call or some fresh and enthusiastic new blood !

About the lack of activity. If I remember well enough, then approx a year ago the same time-period was pretty quiet. People (myself included) were checking out the PARPG idea. Closer to the spring people started coming out of hibernation and their cryogenic fugues and became really active. Then we had another quiet time in late spring/early summer (exams for student folk and sun-stroke for others), then there was another really active and productive period (the graphic artists boom) and then we had the vacations in late summer and after that fall/autumn with school starting and weather changes and Internet blackouts and some more activity with downtimes during all the holidays. Aand we've got full circle.

Okay I think that was my er.. two cents


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: mvBarracuda on February 01, 2010, 01:42:22 PM
Thanks for the detailed feedback gaspard. Unfortunately I don't have the time to reply to it to the extend that I would like to.

Btw.: here're the summarized results of the meeting:
http://wiki.parpg.net/Meeting:2010/01/30#Results


Title: Re: PARPG Meeting (urgent and important)
Post by: maximinus on February 01, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Same here Gaspard. I generally agree with your points. Lack of writers I partly feel is because there is a lack of game and a lack of tools. I think last year we showed that we could get something together, this year we need to concentrate on building the tools to help people make us a game.