Post-Apocalyptic RPG forums

Development => Graphics => Topic started by: JustinOperable on October 10, 2009, 11:20:48 AM



Title: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on October 10, 2009, 11:20:48 AM
Hey guys, I've been putzing around IRC, and have checked out the techdemo quests. I figured I would make some item art as encouraged by a few developers and it can be seen here:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/GiftBox.png
http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Pot.png
http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Yeast.png

I'll be finishing up the Yam, Potatos and Grain by the end of the weekend. It can be used in game for the time being or just as concept art for a modeler if they wanna take the time. But I figured it'd be useful and potentially allow attentions to be placed elsewhere for the techdemo.

I also wanted to ask about in game portraits. I would love to do the npc portraits and have already begun on one which can be seen here (wery much a WIP):

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Drunkard.png

But I wanted to ask, it seems to me that 2D portraits would be fine and can be made quickly, but I didnt know if the game would just use prerenders in the end. I prefer 2D in the case of portraits, but if they will eventually be replaced by prerenders, then I will spend considerably less time polishing and just think of this all as concept art (sloppier and faster).

Thought I'd ask and let people chime in.





Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 10, 2009, 02:22:01 PM
I am curious what Zenbitz has to say about the GiftBox ;)

And btw this NPC is awesome. But I think we need to talk a bit about it before, one problem I can see is that different artists will have different style AND quality. Perhaps it is no big problem, but it could also be a slight entry barrier for newcomers... on the other hand, like you said, good artists can attract other artists so perhaps I am wrong anyway.

Edit: Actually I just realized that we hardly have any NPC portrait at all on the http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery ... we have a few character concepts, but not really portraits.

Only for Doctor Weir. So probably my aspect above is kinda moot, because if we dont have many portraits we dont have many different styles.... hehe ;)

Anyway I think 2D portraits are completely fine but let's try to get some people to think about the prerenderer aspect of NPCs. Personally I have a feeling that prerenderer could mean lesser quality, so even if I am wrong - I let this statement say, for someone else to correct me... ;)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Sirren on October 10, 2009, 02:31:25 PM
Hello there JustinOperable, and welcome back.
Your objects look very good. Since inventory shots will be somewhat small I think they could be used for the end game. They're definitely fit for Techdemo1.
One word about portraits: if you browsed these forums you probably noticed we're just a couple of active graphics makers here, three with you, should you choose to stay. We hope to attract more people soon but for now it's us.
Personally I'm rendering a few characters for the demo, after that I'll have to tackle buildings/scenery props. Yes, the fact that you're making objects is a BIG plus.
In short, we either find somebody skilled enough to model real looking faces/heads or we'll have to do without prerendered portraits. Anyway, I'm happy to see you again here. Keep up the good job.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: zenbitz on October 10, 2009, 07:05:29 PM
of course I hated the gift box at first!  But then it grew on me.  I think it would be perfect if it could be "aged" 20 years, like stains, a small tear in the wrapping, a dented corner.

I like the other images.  The pot I envisioned as beeing much bigger, like an army soup pot.  They have to make a whole bunch of "beer"!


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: JustinOperable on October 10, 2009, 07:11:50 PM
Good to get feedback. Got another image for you:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/yam.png


Shevegen- Zenbitz did look at it, we talked it over and he liked the irony of it being a wrapped gift but wanted me to scuff it up, put stains and rips in the paper. I wanted to give everyone a chance to see it before I went ahead and implemented those changes.

As for the npc. yes different artists have different styles but thats why this project sorta needs an art director, and styles have to be figured out. From previous concept art and the feel of the game, I thought a more painterly approach would compliment the game. As for levels of skill, I'm sure at this stage of development, there wont be many people turned away but it doesnt make much sense to me to limit the quality of the art in the demo so it doesnt discourage people from contributing. It's kinda like saying lets not have good art so we can have more lower quality work. I strongly think that the nicer the art the more artists will want to contribute. Having a portrait included in Wesnoth means your work is considered on par with the quality of the other work, doing a portrait for a new game isn't as motivating in that way if you know what I mean.

Zenbitz- I'll see what I can do with the pot. It could just be in scale to all the other items so it's sort of cauldrony. I tried to make it look pretty roughly crafted.

Sirren- Yea I'm planning on doing whatever work I can to prettify the techdemo. I'll finish up the item images for the techdemo and they can be used until someone gets around to replacing them. As for portraits, I think I'll finish this one up and it can be used for the drunkard or the crazy guy. And from there I can do whatever portraits you don't get around to modeling. Basically I am looking to paint whatever needs to be painted to help the techdemo be as shiny as possible. So feel free to let me paint stuff for use in the demo if it frees you up to model things that can't be painted. That being said,I'm just here for maximum impact so don't let me step on anyones toes.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Sirren on October 10, 2009, 07:43:50 PM
No need to worry about other people's toes  :D
I like the yam image too, by the way.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: JustinOperable on October 10, 2009, 08:05:22 PM
a tater, let me know what people think. Just gotta do the graind and Beer Quest will have all it's first drafts done.


http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Potato.png


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: JustinOperable on October 11, 2009, 04:19:16 PM
more stuff:

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/IntsantTaters.png
http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/MeatHook.png


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 11, 2009, 07:51:15 PM
That meat hook looks so vicious ... literally someone must have cleaned the blood away from it


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 22, 2009, 11:54:10 PM
Good going JustinOperable !


I'm back online again, I guess, and I've got some free time again. So as I saw this thread here I thought I'd share a portrait that I'm working on.

I'm finally familiarizing myself with the digital medium, hooray, although it's taking time as I can work on stuff like this only during night hours. Aand off to sleep now, sszsszzszzz

EDIT: couldn't sleep so worked on it some more, also changed from conventional goggles to makeshift ones...


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 23, 2009, 02:29:18 AM
Pretty cool. I am wondering which use we could have for him... i guess for now we could use him in the techdemo without a problem, what about lateron for the "real game"?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 23, 2009, 10:05:03 AM
Are there going to be character portraits for NPCs too, in-game ?
Like in dialogue mode, bartering/trading etc. And if then are they going to be modeled or painted ? I'm worthless at 3D, but I also think painting them would be easier...

'Cause when we've got specific characters I could do some higher quality portraits too, in time of course.

This one, I thought, could be used in the tech-demo  ::)

Any pointers ? Or any requests ? in terms of contrast, colour choice, etc, something new altogether.. ?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 23, 2009, 11:10:19 AM
post-apoc people tend to like colourful pieces of string and buttons. be sure to hoard for tradin'

mmm. got to make bigger shapes look more clear for it to work as a smaller image


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 23, 2009, 11:20:55 AM
Wow, that's quite impressive :-) I really dig both portraits; are they meant to represent specific characters of the techdemo? If not we could either simply use them for the character that fits best or we create new techdemo characters for these portraits.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 23, 2009, 11:24:04 AM
No these are just for fun really.
I played some good old Fallout yesterday and then started drawing.

I'll go over the docs tonight and join you guys on IRC, perhaps I could start working on the necessary characters then  :)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 23, 2009, 11:28:14 AM
Coolio :-) I think we can even find a place for those two portraits in the techdemo, I like your artistic style and the more NPCs that actually have a character portraits + some detailed dialog, the better IMO.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 23, 2009, 11:32:51 AM
I personally am a big fan of characters with portraits... some roleplayers might disagree, but eyecandy backing up deep content would rock imo


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Lexx on October 23, 2009, 11:48:05 AM
Very nice stuff, good work.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 23, 2009, 04:08:39 PM
Leonardo da Vinci is in da house :)

Or in other words, I think these are really great. AND have a different style compared to justinoperable, and I think this is also great. (He said that artists attract other artists).

I think the second guy can't be used for techdemo #0.

The first one could be used. He looks like a pilot, but I think he would be well suited to shovel the snow as well.
Look at http://wiki.parpg.net/Draft:FEDEx_quest#Characters - if noone objects I try to come up with a plausible name and a little bit background as well.

Soon all of our techdemo NPCs have a portrait.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Dave Matney on October 23, 2009, 06:28:17 PM
I personally am a big fan of characters with portraits... some roleplayers might disagree, but eyecandy backing up deep content would rock imo

I totally agree.  That was one of my favorite parts of Baldur's Gate's creation process.  I even scanned a few of my AD&D books to make my own portraits.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 23, 2009, 07:08:12 PM
I actually used a picture of an Estonian farmer as reference for the first one, but I did give him a new outfit.
For the Snow Shoveler he's not crazy-looking enough. If you guys think that he could be a candidate, I'll work on 'im some more.

Right now I'm going to try and come up with a portrait to the dead guy in the well. Is he Jimmy or is he Pekko or are ALL the names placeholders at this point ?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 23, 2009, 09:39:28 PM
Added the two portraits to the gallery: http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery#Characters


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 23, 2009, 11:49:44 PM
Quote
Right now I'm going to try and come up with a portrait to the dead guy in the well. Is he Jimmy or is he Pekko or are ALL the names placeholders at this point ?

lol

I think Jimmy is a placeholder... Janie perhaps as well.

As a rule of thumb - if the names are easy, and sound american, then zenbitz came up with them.

The finnish names I googled, no idea if they fit but at least they were in some kind of dictionary. Yorum could come up with better names.

Actually, dont worry too much about the names, refer to their supposed job instead.

The dead guy in the well is the dead guy (the little brother). Dont worry too much about the wiki, I see it as my job to keep the wiki up todate with portraits etc...

I am still trying to come up with that first guy... what else could he be hmmm... perhaps a NPC without any relevance to the quest.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 24, 2009, 02:35:11 PM
well I was asking about the names, cause maybe there were characters who were not listed for some reason or another

here's a take on the dead guy. tried to make it creepy. is it too weird ?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 24, 2009, 03:26:36 PM
lol

yeah it is creepy but also supercool
but what is with the right eye, is it missing?
if others don't mind i would like to have that image ingame hehehe

Do you think you could make his contour/silhouette a bit stronger/thicker?

Edit: Just saw your sentence on IRC

<Gaspard> hey guys, I'm not going to stay really online now, but i did add another portrait image onto the forums. I'd appreciate comments. i'll be back in a couple of hours and could get cracking again

Could you have a look at his clothes again? can't really say if anything should be improved there, is it a pullover? or a fur coat? a robe? a long t-shirt? :)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 24, 2009, 05:38:25 PM
yo, okay I'll try to improve on it by tomorrow


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: JustinOperable on October 25, 2009, 01:22:47 AM
Looks quite cool, although I don't think you actually have any dialogue with the dead guy maybe it could show up when you find him.

Excuse my lack of productivity lately, Ive had the flu and havent even tried to do anything but lay in bed.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 25, 2009, 01:44:55 AM
'lack of productivity' ? :D
by the looks of it you've been busy. great work all over, man.

shake off the last of the flu and join in. I'll be slowing down again, too, soon enough, a lot of schoolwork coming up  :-\


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 25, 2009, 04:33:26 AM
Quote
Looks quite cool, although I don't think you actually have any dialogue with the dead guy maybe it could show up when you find him.

Excuse my lack of productivity lately, Ive had the flu and havent even tried to do anything but lay in bed.

LOL now that you mention it... I think you have a solid point.

A dialogue with a dead guy is a bit... difficult haha :D

But I am glad we have a picture of him now when he is dead. Perhaps one day, for quests, there might be different pictures of portraits... like imagine someone who is healthy... later he gets sick... and we could use different images ingame.

Anyway, it shows that I was not thinking much about it. I was just looking at the wiki, thinking "ok what would we need next".

About your lack of productivity, come on, you were one of the most active artists. I think sirren and you were they two main active ones altogether anyway, and without you two there would have been way less activity altogether.

Sorry to hear about the flu, i actually assumed you are busy elsewhere. No problem at all about people being less active, sometimes people need a break and such anyway.

I am still curious about the differences between wesnoth and PARPG as far as management is concerned (quite obviously wesnoth is far ahead in everything compared to PARPG, but years ago I guess wesnoth was a lot smaller too, so ...)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 25, 2009, 10:07:10 AM
It's all about the design, but won't containers and everything have images for when you loot them, including corpses ?
If a character (NPC most likely) dies and you loot their body I think you should still see the portrait.

Although I'm not saying that all of the characters should have 'dead' portraits too, though that might be cool, but crazy amount of work. But as 'Jimmy' is already dead, when you fish out his body it'd be cool that while interacting with the body you'd see an image.

And if that interacting works through a dialogue interface ala:
1. Try and examine the corpse
2. Try and fish out the corpse.
3. Use the meat hook to fish out the corpse (when you get the meat hook)
4. Use the meat pole with the meat hook attatched to it to try and fish out the corpse (success !)

So yeah..


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 25, 2009, 04:48:38 PM
Hm, is this better ?
made the silhouette around the hed read a tad better, i hope and same thing with the chequered shirt and scarf he's wearing.

I mean I, too, got the flu. Almost can't see, sneeze and drip like a lunatic all the time D:


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 25, 2009, 09:46:52 PM
I think it is quite a lot better, really awesome

So that others can compare it:

1)

http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=472.0;attach=374;image
(http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=472.0;attach=374;image)

2)

http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=472.0;attach=377;image
(http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=472.0;attach=377;image)

Creepy undead. Can I add the second one to the wiki?
Hmm come to think about it.. i guess the portrait needs to be smaller but I will ask on IRC
Hmm
<Zenbitz> 200 x 200 I think it is (from reading dialogue.xml)
Seems 200x200 ...

<barra_away> I think 200 * 250px would work pretty well
guess 200/250... in that range

Btw you artists should stop getting sick. That is a bad habit of you. :P


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 25, 2009, 10:12:54 PM
ok, here are the resized 200x250 pngs


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 25, 2009, 11:11:32 PM
Ok cool, I will link to the thread here and add these two...

gimme a few minutes now..


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 26, 2009, 02:32:27 PM
ok, aand here's the farmer, hardened by the harsh conditions of the post-apoc world


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 26, 2009, 05:40:54 PM
very cool image

he looks like an esoteric guy though hehehe

michelangelo... leonardo davinci... getting on the farmland!

now i have to come up with a name hmm... anyone has an idea why he is
old and still a farmer? did he immigrate into the mall area? has he family?

just anything..


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: comscar on October 26, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
I started on the snow shoveler today. I haven't gotten very far yet, but here is what I have:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/148/snowshoveler.jpg



Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: zenbitz on October 27, 2009, 06:00:50 PM
I sort of thought of the shoveler as a big, young, dumb guy.   I mean, he SHOVELS SNOW ALL DAY LONG.

I like your portrait though... maybe we could use him as the Quartermaster (who is nominally female, but whatever)... we do sort of need to make sure the whole game/location isn't a giant sausage fest though

(for those unfamiliar with american slang; sausage fest == party with too many guys)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: comscar on October 27, 2009, 11:40:23 PM
I sort of thought of the shoveler as a big, young, dumb guy.   I mean, he SHOVELS SNOW ALL DAY LONG.

i'll do a different design :)

I went and colored him anyway in case it might be of use:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/519/coldguy.jpg


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 28, 2009, 10:03:33 AM
ok, aand here's the farmer, hardened by the harsh conditions of the post-apoc world
Looks quite cool to me Gaspard :-) Do you still have the high resolution version of it? As we haven't set the 200*250px size in stone for the dialog interface images, it would be great to have a larger version of it available. We can always resize it later.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 29, 2009, 07:29:14 AM
okay, added farmer to the specific wiki and gallery as original sized .png's

edit: also changed all the other portraits of mine to the original .pngs. For in-game uses cropping is also needed to compose them well in the set format. I'll do that, when the portrait image size has been agreed upon.

and as we discussed, there could be different-sized portraits in the game, as in one size at character creation and another size in-game in dialogue menus etc


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 29, 2009, 12:07:14 PM
Coolio Gaspard, I really dig the larger version of the farmer portrait. I'll show some of the portraits in the upcoming news update at Monday if you don't mind.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 29, 2009, 12:15:29 PM
Er, if I really did mind I would not have posted them at all  ::)
thanks, man


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 29, 2009, 01:47:17 PM
hey comscar I didn't yet upload your two portraits yet - if someone else wants to do it go ahead

I especially wanted to draw the outline of the crazy swede in gimp but I managed to somehow kill all XML menus and now my gimp is broken ... :/ so if anyone else wants to go ahead with that, please do. Just wanted to inform you.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on October 29, 2009, 04:59:51 PM
I removed the WIP Ma's portrait JustinOperable is working on from the wiki and added it to this post as attachment. It will go back up to the wiki when he's done.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: comscar on October 30, 2009, 03:00:29 AM
so here is the snow shoveler (again):

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6632/snowman.jpg

i tried to make him look young n' stupid, but he looks more like he's high...

hopefully it's more of what you had in mind?

 


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on October 30, 2009, 09:55:15 PM
Hehe nice style

Only one small complaint which is the logo on his hat, I think it would be better without logo for now.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: zenbitz on October 31, 2009, 12:59:18 AM
I like "a" logo but Nuka Cola is a bit too much.

Maybe Sisu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Auto



Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on November 06, 2009, 01:01:25 PM
Here is a LKW with SISU logo, image is quite large so I only post the link to it here

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Truck_Sisu_Kuorma-auto_H4446_C.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Truck_Sisu_Kuorma-auto_H4446_C.jpg)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on November 09, 2009, 05:38:10 PM
Comscar gave me the green light for doing a paintover for his drawing of the shoveler, so I digi-tuh-lized the drawing.
You guys think something like this will be okay as the shoveler ?

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/PARPGcomscar_snowman.png)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: shevegen on November 09, 2009, 08:23:32 PM
Haha yeah these are great!

I'll add that to the wiki later, as well as with possible dialogue options explaining his SISU hat


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Q_x on November 09, 2009, 10:07:35 PM
Are we sticking in 100% to this unfinished look (with portraits, of course)?
How I'm happy not seeing manga here!

Cheers,
Luke


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on November 09, 2009, 11:03:26 PM
It's an unfinished project ; )

What do you mean by finished anyway ? More polished ?
I guess I could do that.
Though the portraits won't be THIS big in the game. But if they are, then they could, yes, use some polishing up.

To tell the truth there isn't a very centralized art direction for this project. At least not at this point. It would also be difficult to achieve that with all the different artists with different sets of skills and areas of expertise.

I thought about a spot like a Lead Art Director or -Designer at one point, but I didn't think of a way how this could be utilized in real life.
Any thoughts ? Would it be necessary ?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: zenbitz on November 10, 2009, 12:28:39 AM
yes, we need to have an art director or lead artist.  Just someone who can make go/no go decisions on styles and assign tasks.

Did you just volunteer?


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on November 10, 2009, 07:52:34 AM
I started a discussion on the Lead Developers in general and specifically the Lead Artist  spot here: http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new (http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new)


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Q_x on November 10, 2009, 12:31:46 PM
I'm in general non-problematic person and just wanted to know if we are sticking to this stilistic or aestheric look in case I would want to provide some works on my own (maybe, some day). Unfinished or sketchy - meaning there are signs or tracks of tools used. It is easy to imagine whole spectrum and many pathes of (un-)finishing the works from de Koning's style to Chuck Close's.
Just wondering if this is some final point of such wandering.
Cheers,
Luke


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: zenbitz on November 11, 2009, 12:51:03 AM
Luke -
That's the whole issue... someone needs to take charge and define the final style.  Between that and creating trac tickets (and perhaps organizing meetings) presto - "Lead" Artist. 

Of course, that person is not an absolute dictator - the other devs have to agree that the style chosen fits the game, and he has to convince artists to actually draw/model/paint what he likes.

I'm no artist and cannot really say much beyond "I like it" or "I don't like it" or "more detail" or "less detail".  I suppose I can say "doesn't fit with the other art".    But it's not really my area of expertise.


Title: Re: In Game Portraits
Post by: Gaspard on November 11, 2009, 10:41:06 AM
I'm in general non-problematic person and just wanted to know if we are sticking to this stilistic or aestheric look in case I would want to provide some works on my own (maybe, some day). Unfinished or sketchy - meaning there are signs or tracks of tools used. It is easy to imagine whole spectrum and many pathes of (un-)finishing the works from de Koning's style to Chuck Close's.
Just wondering if this is some final point of such wandering.
Cheers,
Luke

Hey I don't think of you asking about it as you being problematic  8)
Sorry for the delay with the reply here, I had very little time the past few days.

To be honest I'm trying out things myself. This is my first time doing something like this and I'm learning on the way. Basically my thought is to try and put together a "PROPOSAL: style and overall direction in the art department" or somesuch, with existing art from existing games and explanations, just to make it easier (or more difficult) to try and keep an over-all mood consistent. Then we'd discuss it over at the forums and it's good that we have new active artists, who want a say in this, monologues suck. If anyone's got many thoughts and has got time on their hands, they're welcome to start working on such a proposal, too. The more proposals, all the more work - but also better results !

Here - http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new (http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new) - I said that such a person (Leading Designer/Artist) has a lot of responsibility, one of those IMO is motivating other artists, if possible and stepping on toes as little as possible. What zenbitz said:
Quote
Of course, that person is not an absolute dictator - the other devs have to agree


further discussion on how to improve the co-operation between artists should go here, from now on, to keep this the In-Game Portraits thread:

http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new (http://forums.parpg.net/index.php?topic=539.msg6342#new)



Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on November 15, 2009, 09:07:43 AM
Just can't believe this fits in under 35 kB...
However - elecronics guy, more in "writing" section, i believe.
Futhrer improvements will be done if needed. File (xcf + png or whatever) will be uploaded when requested.

This guy lives way more different, than ordinary guys from his village, so he can afford being nice and clean, so maybe little different style will be OK.

In fact this is easy and fast artpiece, took me 20 min.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 15, 2009, 01:18:29 PM
20 minutes ? Isn't that a bit too fast ?
I try to spend at least a couple of hours on what I work on. If you don't have that much time in one go then you can work in spurts of 20 minutes over a couple of days just to give the image a slightly greater 'finish'.

You might want to recompose it a bit, so that when it comes down to cropping it for the in-game purposes, the composition wouldn't be too off.
What I mean is, although it has not been completely decided yet how large the portraits are going to be in the game, but at one point they are going to be resized and cropped. Your image is pretty unbalanced for that, right now. Try to keep this in mind when composing it.

Alas, and it has this slight feel of an American-Jewish actor smiling into the camera. He might be clean-cut and -shaven for a post-apoc person, but it's still post-apoc ;) It's a pretty gloomy world out there, there would have to be a very good reason for a person to smile like that all the time

Again a reminder that the in-game art is going to be PNGs because that's loss-less.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on November 15, 2009, 03:33:50 PM
ACK, I'll rework this piece and submit corrected proposal as soon as the exact format will be established (or even earlier). I only want to see what the writing department would say before finishing this guy.

It really took 20 minutes. I wanted to upload whole thing in the morning (proposals in writres,  my personal thread and here+

Later cropping in this case => head in the left-right center and more place for chest?

Important information for begginers (put it on wiki or sth) - even if PNG has some sort of compression ratio (like when saving in GIMP), it is in fact lossless. People can be confused with it.

I was unable to put .png here, file was too big.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 15, 2009, 04:15:05 PM
Oh don't worry, I was just mentioning the PNG/JPG thing just in case. For just posting here at the forums jpg or any other is fine. You might want to make the image not larger than let's say 500pxls in height if you use the attatchment manager. In any case it will be easier to view in the limited space the forum layout provides us with.

I actually took JustinOperable's female guard portrait (you'll find it at the gallery here: (http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery?db92692_6_pa_rpg_wiki__session=e53d671613e7ec221051d0f41ff44540#Characters (http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery?db92692_6_pa_rpg_wiki__session=e53d671613e7ec221051d0f41ff44540#Characters)) as a base for the size of the head and face compared to the overall size of the picture itself.

Composition-wise, yes what you said - so when you crop it later the face will be the main actor in the image, pretty much in the center or slightly off the center.
Lively expressions like smiling and grinning and pouting and scowling, or clothing and things are details, they should just help to dot the i, so to speak.

Expressions are fine, but if possible then a certain look in the face, desperation-sadness-hopelessness, would add to the overall mood. They are living in pretty harsh conditions, nowadays, eh.

So far the characters I've drawn here myself have turned out all gloomy and sad :P It's not a goal in itself, though - I'll try to add more lively expressions to newer ones when I come around to 'em.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 15, 2009, 08:34:22 PM
Here's a WIP in an early stage just to keep the ball running.

It's all smudgy-wudgy because of.. well.. the smudge tool, which I used to adjust some of the proportions of the face.
Man it's crazy painting chicks, you can't really put in any crazy bones or anything without making then look very un-lady-like


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on November 15, 2009, 10:27:17 PM
Guy is much more wrinkled now, seems like I'm getting somewhere, but I'm still far away. Any clues for a gadget for engineering gentleman?

The Hatgirl will be awsom, just keep on drawing.

There is one more thing - there is collection of trac tickets, and I know you make some pieces that will go there. Could you please update the tickets with info like "mine" or "will do" to rest of the team know instantly what will/will not be done, so eg. I can fill som holes or do something without doubling your job?

BTW, Gaspard, as we're both from Slavic nations (but I don't know how to read your письма) and ушанка (wikipedia...) is pronounced the same in our both languages - is the pilot's cap also "pilotka" in Russia?
Plain curiosity.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 15, 2009, 11:08:31 PM
BTW, Gaspard, as we're both from Slavic nations (but I don't know how to read your письма) and ушанка (wikipedia...) is pronounced the same in our both languages - is the pilot's cap also "pilotka" in Russia?
Plain curiosity.

I'm not Russian, actually, I just happen to be studying here ;) Um, I would have to get back to you with 'pilotka'. It sounds very familiar but I'd have to ask a friend.

Yep, I think you're taking it in the right direction all right


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on November 16, 2009, 06:56:04 AM
Quote
Alas, and it has this slight feel of an American-Jewish actor smiling into the camera. He might be clean-cut and -shaven for a post-apoc person, but it's still post-apoc ;) It's a pretty gloomy world out there, there would have to be a very good reason for a person to smile like that all the time

I actually kind of like that he's smiling.  Some people are just naturally happy not matter what the circumstances.  However, this could be the exception to the rule...


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on November 16, 2009, 09:27:47 PM
Ahasver. Sketchy again. More upon the subject in the writing forums.

During next week or  maybe even two my time spend upon PARPG trolling would be limited partially - I have to earn for a living.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 17, 2009, 05:33:14 PM
updaet !


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on November 17, 2009, 08:49:09 PM
I like her... she looks very... normal.  Not all hollywood.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on November 17, 2009, 10:09:49 PM
BTW, Gaspard, as we're both from Slavic nations (but I don't know how to read your письма) and ушанка (wikipedia...) is pronounced the same in our both languages - is the pilot's cap also "pilotka" in Russia?
Plain curiosity.

Yup, I think "pilotka" is the same in both languages (+also in Estonian !)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on November 17, 2009, 10:33:05 PM
Cute!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on November 26, 2009, 03:55:18 PM
These portraits are so damn cool.

Does anyone have one for "Kimmo Niitty" aka Nikolas aka "Kimmo Martinpoika" btw?

This is supposedly the older brother of the guy who is dead. I think we have had some discussion
about this already... I am working on a dialogue right now, and just noticed that he is missing a portrait.
(Or at least I can't find it right now)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on November 28, 2009, 10:50:20 PM
Sorry for the double post but can you help us check the wiki for mistakes or missing portraits?

I tried to ensure that most is correct but I may have missed or slipped a few things.

Here are important links to check:

http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery#Characters
http://wiki.parpg.net/Draft:FEDEx_quest#Characters
http://wiki.parpg.net/Draft:Beer_quest#Characters

And most important the big collection which could be used as central "collection point" at:
http://wiki.parpg.net/TechDemo_Asset_ToDo#Characters


Edit: Zenbitz said hatgirl2.jpg will become Quartermaster for now. I am gonna add that soon to the wiki.

Btw Q_x any idea for that elecronic.jpg guy?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on November 29, 2009, 01:22:29 AM
The Quartermaster looks great, Gaspard. I really like the painterly style, and Gaspard has taken it even further than I did, and I'd like to see that style (painterly, not necessarily Gaspards specific technique) be the portrait standard. I have done some work on Ma and will post her up soon. Also, the drunkard version that is up is old. I have done a more recent version I posted in IRC and I will be doing some more changes to it soon. Also, I wanted to know what we are doing as far as backgrounds. I have the background on Jenna, and on the Drunkard, but it will be inconsistent if it's not in the other portraits so perhaps I should remove it?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: mvBarracuda on November 29, 2009, 02:00:20 AM
I personally wouldn't mind having different backgrounds for different portraits. You could argue that a consistent style makes sense but on the other side I would leave the freedom of choice what kind of background to use to that artists. If you guys agree on using a consistent background, great. If you decide that you want to use a custom background for every portrait, great as well :-)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on November 29, 2009, 02:05:39 AM
Quote
Also, the drunkard version that is up is old.

Do you have a link to the more recent one by the way?

Also Gaspard and you are the most active portrait artists so you could as well go ahead and suggest something here. I was asking myself something else - is a black background better than a white background? I really don't know yet ... my gut feeling says dark background is better than white background, but no idea.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 03, 2009, 12:27:56 AM
alright so I did a small sketch for Dig:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9446/digdug.jpg

I know his face looks like a Picasso painting, but beside that, how is this for the character?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on December 03, 2009, 02:27:25 AM
I like it. He already seems to have lost some hair, and the remaining hair is tied to mini pony tails... that portrait already has character, "personality"!

I also notice the love/hate message on his hands ;)

If you can, could you improve the contrast? Especially of his clothes, if that is not too much work. And colours would be cool too. I think you made 3 character concepts so far, and my opinion is that he is your best so far.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 17, 2009, 03:02:34 AM
sorry for the delay. here's Dig:

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9017/digdug2.jpg)

if there are any more portraits that need to be done, let me know!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on December 17, 2009, 08:30:15 PM
There are still a bunch to do...
http://wiki.parpg.net/TechDemo_Asset_ToDo

I know someone did one for Aino (Ma) but I don't know where it is.





Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 27, 2009, 05:30:02 PM
Camilla ?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/Camilla.png)

Synnove ?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/Synnove.png)

Hey guys, happy holidays to everybody !

Bleh I've been reallly busy and I still am - that's why I'd also like to apologize for the long silence.
But I had to take my mind off of school for a while so I took a shot at the bar people's portraits. These would be Camilla and Synnove. Camilla with the shorter hair and Synnove the one who still thinks it's necessary to wear "jewelry". Camilla would consider all that very much unnecessary - there are far more important things to worry about.
If you're wondering what's on Camilla's forehead then that's a band-aid, tell me if you think it is not readable enough (although I think it's not that important on smaller scales)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 27, 2009, 07:00:26 PM
Aaaand here's my take on Jacob, the girls' father and owner of the bar Jacob's:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/Jacob.png)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 27, 2009, 08:02:33 PM
Hoadir the husky, Dig's dog and best friend:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/Hoadir.png)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: mvBarracuda on December 27, 2009, 09:09:54 PM
Superb job Gaspard :-) The portraits look great.

I'll update the blog until Wednesday, 30th of December. These portraits will be great teasers!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Artifice on December 28, 2009, 12:50:28 AM
Beautiful portrait work!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 28, 2009, 02:41:18 AM
wooow, really nice portraits! reminds me of old photographs from the '20s


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 28, 2009, 03:01:16 AM
thanks guys !

I was fighting a bout of insomnia and tried my hand with Kimmo, the community leader and (dead) Pete's older brother
here you go:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/Kimmo.png)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on December 28, 2009, 03:42:58 AM
really cool - how much you can create with few strokes

There is this other guy... i forgot his name of course... he did one portrait for Fallout 3

Here is the pic I meant. He created loads more of pics and stuff, using similar technique IMO:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2484/fallout31680x10501008.jpg

If you look from a distance it looks great, if you look closely you can see the strokes


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 28, 2009, 04:34:29 AM
Haha, shevy you just compared my futile attempts at this thing with the magnificence of Craig Mullins himself  :D
He's the.. well - he's the Man. He is one crazy concept artist .)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 28, 2009, 01:12:41 PM
oh and something else I've been having fun with:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/igrim/character_pinups.png)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 28, 2009, 06:43:52 PM
hey gaspard, are you using any blender tools, or are those all transparent brush strokes you're using?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 28, 2009, 07:41:41 PM
I actually try to use as much of opaque brushstrokes as I ca (like in Jacob and Kimmo portraits, and some of the earlier ones), but I went a bit over the edge with the girls' portraits, I'd like to redo them one day, after the tech demo though. Too blurry and the shapes aren't reading too well.

With the dog, I just used a round sharp edge brush and the pen pressure opacity setting turned on. That was I control the contrast and transparency to blend different colours and tones (not too many colours in these pictures). I also try to keep the brightness of most colours calmer.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on December 28, 2009, 09:17:35 PM
I still think they are great. That brushstroke is really cool.

The only thing that I would like to point out is that sometimes especially the outline seems blurry - I am fine if the rest is blurry, a blurry bluish background is not so bad, but the outline of the portraits can be weird.

If you look at your Kimmo portrait:
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9747/kimmo.png)
Edit: I tried to draw red lines next to what I meant with "outline"

Face is very cool, but look at the shoulder area with the clothes, it seems as if there is no clear end for his clothes. If you ever get to redo them, do you think you could make the boundaries from clothes-to-background sharper, or more defined? Perhaps it is just my personal preference. I am not sure that is easily possible with brushstrokes alone.

If you look from far away, it is no problem at all, but if you look closer it is a bit strange


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 28, 2009, 09:40:24 PM
i thought i would redo the crazy swede picture, but try to do in in Gaspard's style for some continuity in the portraits.

so far i think it looks terrible, but do you think i am on the right track?

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1193/ffffffffffffffffff.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/ffffffffffffffffff.jpg/)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 28, 2009, 10:24:22 PM
Hey shevy, thanks for the feedback !  8) I understand what you mean and this picture (and other pictures) have plenty of things that could be done better, but I posted these as such, because they're going to be exactly that - in-game portraits. (bla bla bla excuses excuses  ::)) At least for now. I guess you'll also notice that Kimmo's eyes are really blocky and the clothing is pretty damn rough.

I saw that the making of portraits has been really slow, so I just stepped up right now and whipped these up for the tech demo. Actually in the end main characters like Kimmo and Jacob etc should get cooler and more dynamic portraits !

So if you don't mind I won't polish them off any more at the time being.
Although all kinds of similar feedback is welcome.
I might go over them anyway when the mood strikes or after all the portraits for all the tech-demo characters have been prepared. Later on me or someone else could improve on them or make new ones from scratch.


comscar, try blocking in bigger shapes at first, and don't be afraid ! You can always paint over it, and if you get something you'd like to keep then just save it and you can load that version if you screw up.

Also do not worry about the skin colour so much, i play more with colds and warms, but you can just make the shadows more warm and light slightly colder, but not necessarily pink, that is actually the worst choice, it is difficult to make warm and cold pinks when you start out ,) and skin is very rarely pink.

Tonally you can go darer in darkest . You can later lighten things up, too.

EDIT: also paint over the white background, I doubt that you'löl keep a perfectly white background and it'll just hurt and tire your eyes while you work. You don't have ot make it as bright blue as you did for the Dig portrait, try toning it down, more towards a bluish grey, and everything must not be exactly that one colour. exüeriment ! it is importat to experiment if you're working on alien territory


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on December 29, 2009, 03:05:44 AM
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7063/crazyswedepainting.jpg

well, i tried to use more greyish and white tones and use less pink. one thing i have trouble on is trying to make the face appear 3D, but i'll work on that later


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on December 29, 2009, 09:32:00 PM
I like all the paintings.  However, Kimmo has to be older - in his 50s.  Jacob could use a little graying as well.
It sure seems like we have a lot of brunettes for Finland...



Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on December 29, 2009, 10:23:52 PM
Kimmo's also thatmuch older ? Hm, okay.

I'll be out of town for a week or so and then I should have some time to go over them - I also want to try my hand on the prostitutes  8)

I have also thought of the brunette/blonde thing, but it's not really a rule, that blonde thing, most Finnish people aI personally know are dark-haired. They have a lot of immigrants too, if you do not count Russians and Slavic people, then we have less immigrants than the Finnish.

For example in Estonia it is a pretty rare thing to see a black person. In Helsinky I've seen dozens every time I've been there, local Finnish black people.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on December 29, 2009, 11:23:23 PM
I didn't know that he was that much older but I always visualized him as quite strong, perhaps slightly thick guy, older than his younger brother and possible physically a bit of a brute.

If you dont mind, we could use that portrait above for another NPC - portraits are soooo cool.

Quote
most Finnish people aI personally know are dark-haired.

Hey anyone saw in the pirkinning?
http://www.starwreck.com/

I think the finnish people usually have quite a light skin. Other than that it seems to vary what kind of eye colour and hair colour they have heh... here four somewhat female finnish males


(http://www.topnews.in/files/janne.gif)
(http://www.maedchen.de/webspace/incoming/21741/f272aa61fca7124fd0128940b6ad2afd_5436920086.jpg)
(http://img.nrk.no/img/579807.jpeg)
(http://grandprixinsider.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/kimi-raikkonen.png)

I am pretty sure that female is finnish, and if all of them would look like that noone would need swedish beauty queens anymore...
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5708/beautyh.png)

Quote
They have a lot of immigrants too, if you do not count Russians and Slavic people, then we have less immigrants than the Finnish.

Hehe perhaps because not many want to live in Russia these days ... :D
I think the only town that really interests me is Moskva, just because it is so damn huge and embraces perma-snow ... Kaliningrad/Königsberg and Petersburg/Petrograd/Leningrad may be more beautiful but frankly Moskva kinda has this "coolness" factor ...

And I guess I would like to fly over siberia one day (but dont wanna end up walking through it ... i hate coldness)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on December 30, 2009, 05:07:55 AM
Wow Gaspard, you really took my attempts at painterly portraits and ran with it. I am not the art director, but I am looking to do some more portraits for PARPG. So I was wondering, one thing that really helped unify the look of the Wesnoth portraits and get people involved was that Kitty posted a tutorial on how she did her portraits, and that was considered to be the style of the wesnoth portraits from then on. I think your pieces look really great and I think this is the general direction the portraits as a whole should go in. So I have a proposal, I don't know what app you use, I use gimp, but if you can post your process and how you acheive the look of your pieces, and the developers are in agreement with me that thats the direction the portraits should go, then that might help people who want to help to contribute in a style consistent with what you and to a lesser extent I have developed for the in game portraits. what do people think?

Also, I noticed your backgrounds are mostly the painterly blue strokes. Should I alter the background of the guard and drunk portraits? Also will those colors alter between locations so each location sorta feels different by having different colored strokes in the background.

EDIT: And in that spirit, here is my first attempt at a portrait more in Gaspards style. I might work on it some more, or I might leave it as is if people like it. I figured it could be used for a character that gives important info during one of the quests (being that the model is a close friend of mine, I'd prefer she not be one of the prostitutes). This is a lower quality jpg, if people like it I'll post a better resolution image. Also I'll get Ma Niity done soon so don't count me out of that one yet.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: maximinus on January 01, 2010, 01:47:51 PM
EDIT: And in that spirit, here is my first attempt at a portrait more in Gaspards style. I might work on it some more, or I might leave it as is if people like it. I figured it could be used for a character that gives important info during one of the quests (being that the model is a close friend of mine, I'd prefer she not be one of the prostitutes). This is a lower quality jpg, if people like it I'll post a better resolution image. Also I'll get Ma Niity done soon so don't count me out of that one yet.

I like it. I like even more the idea that in future portraits will start to have a similar feel.

BTW, what do you use to produce the art-work? Is the base image resolution independent (i.e. a vector?) or at a very high resolution?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on January 02, 2010, 01:58:17 AM
They're bitmap images. Resolution is 1500x1250. which is about 5x4 in full 300dpi print resolution. More than enough I figured for a small portrait at screen resolution. I use Gimp.

Finished the piece I was working on and altered the guard to have a new background.

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Ula.png

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Guard-1.png

Ma is almost done, so hold tight.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 02, 2010, 04:55:32 AM
Wheeee!

Once barra gets back he will be surprised!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on January 03, 2010, 12:13:23 AM
HAPPY NEW YEAR, GUYS !

Hey, JustinOperable, I really like the new portrait you did ! I must say I envy your skill with tones. All you things look so damn good and accurate even when you zoom out to the in-game resolution - I can't seem to get that too well, the tones look all wrong  :-X :-X :-X And don't worry too much about the backgrounds. Things like that might need special tweaking when we have the GUI down and the portrait resolution is fixed etc.



About any kind of tutorials or somesuch: I'm going back to school from this short holiday on the 4th (Monday) and I'm going to be UBER busy 'til the end of the month. I will try to pull a couple serious PARPG overnighters after that, with beer and coffee and more beer. and then coffee. and top it with beer. I was thinking of maybe making a video of the clumsy way I work, so I could share it. I don't have a very systematic approach to working so that could actually the best thing I could offer at the moment :(
So good luck everyone. The fact that I'm UBER busy with schoolwork might actually mean that at one point I will just send it all to hell and make something for PARPG anyway...


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 03, 2010, 01:49:36 AM
Come to think about it, a video would be cool for showcasing AND as a tutorial.

Anyway, don't worry. Take your time. Meanwhile we try to get people to become more active again (how cool is it that maximinus is back!)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on January 04, 2010, 04:32:02 AM
Ma Niity draft. Still gonna mess with it a fair amount, but I thought I'd let people see, and C+C

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/MaNiity-1.png


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: maximinus on January 04, 2010, 02:41:42 PM
As an artwork, it looks great to me. But he looks a bit like a Indian Sikh with that dark skin and the scarf around his head.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on January 04, 2010, 09:23:42 PM
Kimmo has to be kind of old from a story perspective.  He has been the leader of the mini-mall for ~20 years already.  I picture him as mid 30s during the war.  35+20 = 55, and that's not even including "wear and tear of the post-apocalypse".

People should keep that in mind when doing the portraits - is that since the world "ended" 20 years ago... people who fought in the war or had lives in the pre-apocalpyse are all around 40 at least.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: neutiquam on January 07, 2010, 02:06:23 AM
That Ula girl... Looks very nice! But if you're trying to catch a Finnish name here, the name in Finnish would be Ulla with two l's. If the person is not Finnish, then nvm :P.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: JustinOperable on January 07, 2010, 08:34:00 AM
Thanks! I actually wasn't intending to name the character. The reference I used was a friend of mine of Polish descent whose real name is Ula. In game she can be called whatever we like, but I figured Ula was as good a filename as any considering it is a northern european name of some sort. I doubt everyone in Finland has Finnish names.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 07, 2010, 01:49:03 PM
You know how it goes ... once anyone suggested a name, this name usually sticks :D


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: skymandr on January 08, 2010, 11:06:04 PM
Finished the piece I was working on and altered the guard to have a new background.

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/Guard-1.png

A cute young woman like that should really have a name! Mind if I suggest some?


You know how it goes ... once anyone suggested a name, this name usually sticks :D

It might be worth starting a thread about this though. Having realistic (and coherent with the region it is to be set in) names will add to the overall impression, and inconsistencies will detract from the experience.
For example: Besides spelling Ulla with two lls, Synnove should really be Synnöve (or Synnøve for Norway/Denmark). Since ö/ø makes no sense to people outside the Nordic countries, I guess it might be appropriate to exchange it for oe - Synnoeve?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 09, 2010, 01:01:45 AM
The last name of the female guard was Jenna. Before that her name was Janie. If you have a more appropriate one go ahead. (My only complaint is with Skwisgaar as name, when everyone else has more or less ok names)

Anyway, as for Ma looking "dark". I think justinOperable had an earlier draft of Ma where she looked differently. There were no colours used, but it was pretty clearly visible that she is old. I think that was what he intended.

It now looks very different from the other Ma sketch. Personally I liked the other Ma more even though she had no colours :D


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 22, 2010, 03:22:17 AM
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4705/parpghooker.jpg

so i though i'd try to draw the prostitute scam artist.

how's this look so far? drawing women is totally walking on foreign grounds to me. any good suggestions on what to improve?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: maximinus on January 22, 2010, 01:47:50 PM
Imageshack is blocked here. Can you attach to the forums for me?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 22, 2010, 03:31:41 PM
said the file size is too large...

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/021/5/b/PARPG_prostitute_sketch_by_comscar.jpg

hope that will work


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: maximinus on January 22, 2010, 03:38:37 PM
The eyes look plaintive but the mouth looks angry, if you understand me. But it's a good start, much better than I could do  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on January 22, 2010, 09:13:08 PM
She looks too hopeless and pathetic for the character "as written" (all 3 sentences, maybe 6 if you include dialog).   The bar girls are more like "Gold digger" types... they won't just sleep with anyone for the post-apoc equivalent of $20 (a can of tuna and a knife?) but pick and choose their victims.  They might even just trick you out of your stuff.  Tough survivor types.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 23, 2010, 04:58:38 AM
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/022/1/9/PARPG_prostitute_sketch_by_comscar.jpg

hope this looks better. any suggestions?


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on January 23, 2010, 10:13:35 AM
Looks like you have a tablet, am I right?

Look at this piece:
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/books/hmh-ems/TheSmilingGirlLG.jpg

What are things you can improve:
Adding some light and shadow that the girl would have some volume.
Having hair less vinyl and more hairy.
Nose shorter, lips up.
Not having whole ear "outside".
Develop your own brushes with more natural look.

Don't be so shy, use some "power" - the shadows are barely visible. You can always undo some things if you don't like it. Or do some screwed part again

My method (when not copying from a photo) is to work with white and black only (so that I change it with X key) with more and more transparency (starting with 50 and going to 20) and smaller and smaller brushes. Not as a dogma, but as a general rule. So in very first minute I have more or less sketched volumes and I go more and more into detail with time. Coloring all is the very last part for me.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 23, 2010, 06:34:24 PM
yeah bit more shadows and more "outlines" of the shape

also, i think the head angle seems a bit weird

but i like the colours!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 24, 2010, 01:30:48 AM
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/023/f/1/PARPG_prostitute_sketch_by_comscar.jpg

how's this? i stopped here because i wasn't sure if i should continue shading or not.

 i kinda messed up the eye, so she still looks kinda hopeless, but let's just say she's giving a fake "puppy dog" look for now...


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zeli on January 24, 2010, 11:26:13 AM
I'm not a king at anatomy, but I do believe the neck is 1/3 too wide... except if its mutation of course.
Also it looks like the hair isn't affected by gravity and that it kinds of sticks to her head, like she used a lot of wax or something.
I'm not sure about that one, but it does seem like the nose is too small.
It definetly needs more shading to model the volume of the head/body (you could start by adding the shadow of the nose on her face, good way to add perspective).
Don't be afraid to use black (Gaspard does it, though theres a pitfall: you might 'kill' the colours).
This might be a bit late to mention it but try to be more loose with your style, don't be eum... 'shy', be more wild (and thus more expressive). Look at Gaspard's style to see what I mean.
Things I presume you were planning to do: make the cloth more raggy, make the backgound more interesting and perhaps adding more overall details.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 25, 2010, 05:02:49 AM
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/024/1/9/PARPG_prostitute_by_comscar.jpg

well, i put on more shading, but this is honestly the best i can do. without any kind of past experience or training, i am just learning as i go.

even with some online tutorials i look at, they are mostly based on intermediate artists and not beginners. feels like i am trying to run before i learn how to walk.

but hey, your guy's advice and tips defiantly made this look better than it did. not that it's any mona lisa right now, anyways.  

edit: i think my main problem was i wasn't using the airbrush tool. great time to just realize corel had one...


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Gaspard on January 26, 2010, 10:42:51 AM
man the last one is actually great improvement.

but don't drop it yet - you'll learn more if you try to push a single image.

Try to amp up the contrast (I DO NOT MEAN moving the contrast slider this way or that) use darker colour in places and move toward the lightest. I'd do a paintover to show what I mean But I do not have my tablet with me. I could do it in two weeks when I get back to Russia. It is very impressionistic right now


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: Q_x on January 26, 2010, 11:43:03 AM
comscar - this is the right way. You're making rapid progress, I'm really impressed (and jealous of how fast you're going forward).

I agree with Gaspard - you can try to make the body even more 3D-ish (or volume-having), eg. by working with transparent brush - changing it back and forth between colors of the shadow and light to make it more sculpted and less flat, and adding some things later.
Or you can go into details and make lips or eyes look better.
This are seriously hard things to catch, but once you'll see what is going on there, how the volume and shape are turning into shades, lights, shadows, blinks, colors, spots and lines, how one light part illuminates or shadows the other and how it all gets mixed in the eye when perceived - you'll know it for your whole life.
Learn to watch. Skin is really not pink at all - it has rather closer to a color of clay.

I hope you aren't bored with my mumbling, angry or sth.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: comscar on January 26, 2010, 04:51:31 PM
haha, no i really appreciate your advice!

i have been doing the transparent brush strokes with different colors, but i guess a tapered camel brush was just a bad tool to use...

i'll paint over it with another tool


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on January 30, 2010, 10:04:26 AM
I think it's pretty cool. If you can, do some last finishing touches, then state that it is finished.

It is better to have something you feel halfway comfortable, and besides I really think it is nice and people who want to make something better can well invest their own time. :D

Once you are happy with it I put it to the gallery + wiki.

There is only one thing I think is a bit too much, this is the perspective of the left shoulder - the left shoulder area seems too big and should be smaller, I think. She has a bit too much a... muscular neck? If that makes sense hehe.


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: zenbitz on January 31, 2010, 11:10:00 PM
Ma Niity draft. Still gonna mess with it a fair amount, but I thought I'd let people see, and C+C

http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l375/JustinOperable/MaNiity-1.png

She's cool, never made it to wiki though.   What happened to unlit cigarette dangling from her mouth!  I wrote a whole dialog exchange for it!


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: shevegen on February 01, 2010, 03:34:44 AM
Yeah, I liked the earlier sketch as well :D

The new one seems more serious


Title: Re: [WIP] In-Game Portraits + feedback and discussion
Post by: xseoer on June 26, 2010, 04:32:04 AM
She looks too hopeless and pathetic for the character "as written" (all 3 sentences, maybe 6 if you include dialog).   The bar girls are more like "Gold digger" types... they won't just sleep with anyone for the post-apoc equivalent of $20 (a can of tuna and a knife?) but pick and choose their victims.  They might even just trick you out of your stuff.  Tough survivor types.
Yes,she really looks too hopeless and pathetic  :'(