Post-Apocalyptic RPG forums

Development => Graphics => Topic started by: Border on July 09, 2009, 02:55:27 PM



Title: WIPs (3D) - Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 09, 2009, 02:55:27 PM
hello,
i got to the point i start doing concept art and research for the Dev of the game. After multiple search on the wiki and Google i found some pretty interesting pic of Scandinavia, Sweden and such. So anyways i though it my be a good idea to start a small town. I saw some disparate art asset laying here and there but i would like to find some style even if its early, i think that might be good to start playing with it.
So i will post here the dev of this small project of mine. I guess it might be realistic to say I'm looking to finish it for next milestone or the next if the milestone is next week :D
Before starting i need to find some reference since I'm from Canada. Scandinavia architecture and panorama are unknown to me.
-What town  can i start with and do you have some reference on which i can start?
for instance you would like so see a version of Stockholm and have some wonderful photos of your last trip there ;D

Also i plan to create most asset of it ie Building (destroyed or not), rock, tree, garbage bin,vending machine and such.
Naturally, in a way that all or at least most asset can be reused all the way through t the project.I will post
I will post a list of what i plan to do to fill the city. but don't expect too much to start. Maybe 3-4 building and some stuff to fill the street plus the ground tile. No resident or monster for the moment, mostly inanimated stuff

Its a big project but its always a big kick in the ass, wich will feel good :D


Title: Re: Small city style
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 09, 2009, 03:22:35 PM
Hmm that's actually a bit tricky as we've got a few alternative story drafts at this point. I'll report back after the writing department meeting tomorrow; hopefully we got an idea what the main storyline of the game will be and can start fleshing out towns, quests and NPCs that suit this storyline.


Title: Re: Small city style
Post by: Border on July 09, 2009, 03:47:09 PM
yeah thats what i thought. But like i sayed, any starting idea will do. Ideally it would be to create useable material but right now its just to get the ball rolling.


Title: Re: Small city style
Post by: zenbitz on July 09, 2009, 05:44:37 PM
well, I wanted to have "Hell, Norway" but the artist wouldn't let me move the map that far north.

Hmm... here is a cool university in Otaniemi, Finland:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/p/m/15841c/

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Dipoli_Conference_Center.html
http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Otan_Univ_Library.html
http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Otaniemi_Technical_Univ..html


Otaniemi is on the coast, on the outskirts of Espoo, which is like the 2nd or 3rd largest city in Finland.  That means it was nuked... however these buildings could have been far enough from the blast radius to retain most of their structure.  There is also a ferry across to Talinin, in Estonia.

There you go.





Title: Re: Small city style
Post by: Border on July 09, 2009, 06:21:29 PM
Zenbitz: Awesome! that right what i was expecting. The Otaniemi  will be the first. Naturally, don't expect a realistic urban representation of it ...
Anyways it wouldnt make any sense, especially game wise because of the size. :D


Title: Re: Small city style
Post by: Border on July 10, 2009, 04:26:30 AM
Just to mention. I made a bit more of exploration on the wiki en fell on wished location and i founded a lot f image on Kaliningrad. It look like an awesome start plus the picture i founded are perfect.
More to come soon.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 10, 2009, 08:13:02 AM
Coolio :-) Keep us updated Border!


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 14, 2009, 01:40:36 PM
Just for the record. does FIFE support elevation? i guess for outside environment yes but for building? If i remember correctly from FO all multi level building were closed. ie vault, cave or anything you could'nt see outside. right?
So for PARPG all building,house etc shall be one level high.
I think we should stay with ground level for simplicity sake ATM


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: zenbitz on July 15, 2009, 12:40:14 AM
I believe the answer is "not really" although there is a Z-axis.  I think I would like to shoot for 2.5D where you would have elevations or pseudo elevations, but no "stacking".    So, 2 coordinates would techically specify your location on any given map, but you might be drawn higher or lower depending on that coordinates z-level... further discussion to Programming forum please.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: shevegen on July 16, 2009, 06:15:14 PM
Quote
Just for the record. does FIFE support elevation?

I figure with enough momentum FIFE evolves faster too so perhaps we could say... FIFE will one day support elevation definitely ;)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 16, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
zenbitz: Thanks, no need to go on the programming forum ATM. It it only for designing purpose right now. I don't what to loose too much time creating 10 level building for nothing ;D



Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Dave Matney on July 16, 2009, 09:47:46 PM
zenbitz: Thanks, no need to go on the programming forum ATM. It it only for designing purpose right now. I don't what to loose too much time creating 10 level building for nothing ;D

But you could create the outside, then map every individual inside level. Just because Z-level isn't something we're currently doing doesn't mean it's not something we're incapable of emulating.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 17, 2009, 03:10:24 PM
I figure with enough momentum FIFE evolves faster too so perhaps we could say... FIFE will one day support elevation definitely ;)
I seriously doubt it: right now not much is going on FIFE-development-wise. The engine is pretty much in the hands of the community so we might need to add new features ourselves if we would like to use them for PARPG.

EDIT: And zenbitz is right. While FIFE supports multiple elevations in theory, the pathfinding code does only take paths on the same layer into account. Therefore we should aim for the Fallout solution: separate faked elevations. Adding multi-layer pathfinding to FIFE will be _much_ more complicated than that, I don't see an easy solution that wouldn't take weeks or even months to implement and it might turn out to be not properly working anyway. We should go for the faked elevations.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 17, 2009, 04:10:58 PM
that's cool, cuz I'm working on a small hotel which have 4 floor or so. So i when I'll do the inside I'll model the level too. Or we could use the "So sorry the stair are collapsed, you can't go upstairs..." ;D


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 17, 2009, 04:19:17 PM
Fallout used the fake approach for the casinos in New Reno (FO2). I don't see a reason why we shouldn't go down the same route.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 17, 2009, 06:05:41 PM
yeah, as i type my answer i kinda remember there were spot in FO2 that were multi-leveled. Its in new reno .. mmm. I'll have to find some ref then.
thanks


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 21, 2009, 08:24:24 PM
okay i finally move my ass enough create some 3d. In fact i left my rendering script
so here it it. Both are extremely WIP 
Some hotel
(http://files.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/hotel01.png)

and a small center place statu in honor of mother russia.
(http://files.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/Statut01.png)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Gaspard on July 21, 2009, 08:51:31 PM
Whoa ! Fill this one building with people and we've got a one-building-community !! Imagine all the people ! Imagine all the dilemmas, the schemes, the quests ! Let's dress this baby up, give it interiors and plug it in !

In short - great work, Bor

when you start whipping textures on the hotel, break some of those windows or board them up - some sloppy repairs and degradation


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Kaydeth on July 21, 2009, 09:06:17 PM
Looks pretty cool, but isn't the scaling off a bit? The building looks pretty small compared to the current sprite size.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 21, 2009, 10:35:49 PM
thanks gaspard. for the moment the building is clean ie. without any damage at all, which should be add asap.

kaydeth: your right, the whole building will needed to be cut into multiple tile but just for the ease of view i zoom out for the whole model ;D
BTW i don't remember seeing the tile size somewhere, any idea where i could find it?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Kaydeth on July 21, 2009, 10:46:52 PM
I think you'll probably find what you are looking for in the Graphics section of the wiki:

http://wiki.parpg.net/Department:Graphics

the sprite size is here:

http://wiki.parpg.net/Draft:Graphics


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: sm4rv on July 21, 2009, 11:40:31 PM
@Border

Does this statue base on a real statue in kaliningrad?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 22, 2009, 01:23:41 AM
hmm well not really. i found a picture of a statue in Kaliningrad on wich i based myself too but instead of a star there was a character. Lenine i guess. Naturally i can't reproduce Kaliningrad integrally so i made some modification.
I think i will make some variant of the statue. one with a character maybe one with the Ussr hammer and i forgot the other thing


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: sm4rv on July 22, 2009, 09:14:27 AM
It would be nice to have some recognizable buildings/monuments ingame :).


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 24, 2009, 05:01:00 AM
i partially agree with you sm4rv, and this is a point the bug me a little on the futur of the game.
I worked in the past on a PS2 game some years ago, a game were you travel from city to city across USA.
Anyways, things is because of PS2 resources, we couldn't reproduce whole citie but we use landmark instead and to be honest it didn't cut it. Saying "welcome to NY"  with a 10 houses city and a liberty statue.. mm 'not quite sure.
So the problem is the same here. Ok i use the name kaliningrad but to be honest i really doubt in the end, it would resemble to it except for maybe some architecture style or building.
my point is "realism?" yeah but realistically :) nah seriously, i look for cool thing in kaliningrad and built from it. If you can reconize it, fine . if not, too bad. As long the whole thing is cool looking, its fine by me ;D


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Gaspard on July 24, 2009, 07:22:30 AM
But the game could feature only one district of the game. Let's say a major square surrounded by some recognizable buildings. In this kind of game we don't have to show EVERYTHING. In-game we can even point it out to the player by having an NPC say it out loud - "This square is all we've got, the rest of Kaliningrad is dead and empty, nothing there except ghosts." And if there is something somewhere in the city then it could be a hidden location which is given to the PC during a quest by an NPC.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 25, 2009, 02:33:19 AM
yeah. that my be an idea, but again we can't do this for a lot of city.
Another idea would be just to wipe them; like after the apocalypse and ppl refund them but with another name.
The classic Neo.. Neo-Oslo maybe? nah too anime ;D
Here some new concept i made for environment asset.
Various stuff to populate the desolated world. Yeah i cheated. i created the grid like a big boy.
(http://files.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG_Concept01_LR.jpg)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 26, 2009, 11:44:20 AM
I like the monument, the hotel and the iso drawings :-) Added them to the gallery:
http://wiki.parpg.net/Gallery

Good point about trying to recreate cities. It's not realistic to feature the size of a real city in such a game. However I would personally love to see at least one really big city in the game, similar to Tarant, which was the biggest town in Arcanum. Here's a map of Tarant:
http://mikesrpgcenter.com/arcanum/maps/tarant.html


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Gaspard on July 26, 2009, 02:27:19 PM
I agree with you there, that it'd be cool, barra.
But it doesn't have to be this one city. It could just be an urban area that consists of many dens of "villages" that are really close by and form a loose alliance or something. Excellent again for storytelling and various factions and quests etc


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Sirren on July 26, 2009, 02:53:26 PM
My two cents:
Maps come and go. Once you have all the tiles/scenery objects you need they're somewhat easy/quick to put together. The hardest part is filling them, i.e. scripting. Quest, special events, random characters, dialogues, plots/subplots..
I think there are only two issues here:
1) map design, which is broken into:
A) General map design. How are we going to build locations? Huge single map? Many smaller maps? You can't recreate a WHOLE town, that's for sure. So.. A couple of maps for special places only (Think of the Den in Fallout 2)? Or a single map for each"district", such as central square, suburbs, crop fields/factories, military area, VIP area and so on? In short, more work for the design departement, even if this one can and has to wait for some more time.
B) Actual map design, i.e. we first design/draw/describe the content of each map, then mappers will actually build them.
2) The second issue is the end game download size. Most 2d total conversions exceed 200 megs in size today, and that's without a lot of new animations, which are the hugest chunk of most isometric games. I'm positive that we'd have a hard time in stuffing PARPG on a single cd. My opinion here is:quantity and size of maps describe the size a particular location is supposed to be in game, other than that let's put in game as many maps as wee need. Provided we have the manpower maps are a minor problem.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Suzi on July 27, 2009, 08:37:12 PM
Border i appreciate the effort you are putting in this project, my only concern is that whole buildings might not be needed. I had this discussion with barra, he told me that all maps will be created with tile/wall pieces. My suggestion was to render huge background images (no tile/wall pieces needed) and directly put them into the game, but unfortunately this game will be based on pieces.

The small center place statu looks really good, now all this thing needs are some textures(*hint*), i could try to apply some, alternatively we render it out without textures and the textures will be "painted" on.

Btw, where have you found this isometric grid? Care to share?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 27, 2009, 09:02:36 PM
Don't worry with the building ATM. Eventually i was meant to be cut in piece for importing into the game but i think i'll change my workflow if we use wall piece and build house from there. Anyway, the project is still young and i think i'll have to switch to Blender eventually.
For the statue. yeah texture where planned but i'm lazy and i was having problem with camera angle, texture came second but they will... in time.
I made the Isometric grid. i can put it on the WIKI if its useful for the concept artist. But it not accurate outside the concept dept.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Suzi on July 27, 2009, 09:19:42 PM
Yes, i was just worried that you do too much work then is actually needed. Building such a thing sure takes a lot of time. From what are you switching to Blender? Hopefully not from MAX. :)

@Isometric grid: Ah too bad it isn`t vector based, depending on the resolution it might be useful. Please upload it, if possible.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 28, 2009, 07:00:01 PM
I had this discussion with barra, he told me that all maps will be created with tile/wall pieces. My suggestion was to render huge background images (no tile/wall pieces needed) and directly put them into the game, but unfortunately this game will be based on pieces.
You could still render bigger objects without slicing them into pieces but it will create a lot of a z-ordering issues. Invisible mapblockers can be used to work around some of the problems, but in the end the only real solution is to splice them up.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on July 29, 2009, 02:50:31 AM
I had the ISO Grid On the wiki as an internal tool.
http://wiki.parpg.net/Graphics:Resources (http://wiki.parpg.net/Graphics:Resources)
Here the direct link.
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/isogRID.png (http://files.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/isogRID.png)
Its a 300 DPI Letter format so 3300 x 2550 px. I guess the resolution is good enough.
Have fun


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 13, 2009, 03:23:24 AM
Just some sketch i made during my weeks off, right now i'm still in vacation but my wife found plenty of stuff to keep me occupied ;)
Some building but also a old soviet solder or i dunno how they call themselves in PARPG. And some tribesmen. But not tribesmen as display in FO but more villager, you know the kind who got and village's elder and maybe an herborist. Well thats the way i think people will gather 20 years after being bomb. in small community really tied together.
Excuse the crappiness of the scan,
(http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG/Concept05.JPG)
(http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG/Concept06.jpg)
(http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG/Concept07.jpg)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 13, 2009, 09:27:22 AM
Nice work Border :-) The blocky Soviet look in the last picture made me smile.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Suzi on August 13, 2009, 10:10:53 AM
I like the "sketchy"-ness of it. Pic 2 seems very Fallout -like.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 14, 2009, 04:08:08 AM
mvbarra: what so funny about my soviet? the fact that is beret look like an hot-dog? lol
Suzi: fallout like? you mean the junk tribesmen? i take it as a compliment :D


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Suzi on August 14, 2009, 07:25:19 AM
yeah that one, maybe because of the headpart.
pic3 the soviet general has a very strange head, but radiation can do wonders.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 14, 2009, 07:35:35 AM
That was meant to be a compliment from my side :-) I like your style of drawing.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 14, 2009, 03:48:17 PM
hehe don't worry guys i always take your comment as compliments.
More to come. i'll return to read the writing section of the wiki to try to flesh out the world a bit.
maybe some NPC from the list next?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: qubodup on August 14, 2009, 06:34:55 PM
Wow, great drawings! *adds to gallery*


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: shevegen on August 14, 2009, 10:09:57 PM
the soviet guy looks cool

Border should draw more of those soviet tribe-guys!


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 18, 2009, 03:54:17 AM
Shevegen ask, i obey.
Here's your daily those of soviet soldier, on the menu today. Big krumksky aka the heavy weapon guy, here with a flamer.
I really like the idea of having a tribe full of crazy soviet, all wearing gas-mask. It protect yourself from inhaling toxic waste, keep your face from frostbite and you always look mean with that.
Also they all need some artifact of mother Russia. You know the kind of fanatic that keep always a glass vial fun of the "holy land" and use it as a talisman.
Quote
"All pray holy mother Russia, keep her next to your heart and you will feel the flame of the brave."
Kamrad Col. Ivanovich pratsniev. Kaliningrad Soviet Enclave
(http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG/Soviet_Flamer.jpg)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 18, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
i dunno who already put it on the wiki but thanks.
BTW whats needed to put it on wiki gallery? i figure the link,table and such but how to do the thumbnail?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 18, 2009, 02:31:24 PM
First you need to upload the file: http://wiki.parpg.net/Special:Upload

Remember the filename and use that filename, following the syntax of the other examples:
http://wiki.parpg.net/index.php?title=Gallery&action=edit


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: Border on August 21, 2009, 03:15:07 AM
More soviet trooper, i guess i starting to get feed up of gasmask. i will try different stuff.
Standard bearer, Bazookas trooper and some steroid muscle monster with turtle shell armor... don't ask
I'm not always controlling my pen.

(http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/507889/PhotoWEB/PARPG/Soviet_Trooper.jpg)


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: shevegen on October 09, 2009, 04:02:56 PM
Anyone knows if Border is still around?


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 09, 2009, 04:46:32 PM
Haven't seen him lately. In case we hear nothing from him over the course of the weekend, I'll fire him an email at Monday asking if everything is okay on his side.


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: shevegen on October 17, 2009, 12:25:23 AM
Hmm we should try to get in contact with him, the Kaliningrad story might fit perfectly for the after-techdemo era


Title: Re: Small city style ( Kaliningrad)
Post by: mvBarracuda on October 17, 2009, 12:35:10 AM
I've already sent him an email five days ago. He didn't reply to it yet.