Post-Apocalyptic RPG forums

Development => Audio => Topic started by: Gary on July 02, 2009, 04:18:47 AM



Title: [OGA-Archived] Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 02, 2009, 04:18:47 AM
Dave (or whoever is collecting the audio tracks),

What format do you want the audio samples in?  I just finished recording sounds for chambering, cycling, loading, etc. various firearms:

.45 ACP long slide [M1911A1]
12-ga semi-auto shotgun [Browning Belgian]
.22WMG bolt action [Marlin]
30-06 "sniper rifle" [Remington 700]).

I recorded everything a couple of times dry (with no effects).

Gary


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Dave Matney on July 02, 2009, 04:34:00 AM
Way to go, Gary.

Ogg is the format FIFE plays, so that'll work. :)


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on July 02, 2009, 09:18:27 PM
That's great
Ogg is the format FIFE plays, so that'll work. :)
Ogg/Vorbis is the format used by the engine, but we want lossless if it's available to be safe.

Can you upload the original file (in the format you recorded it in) to, for example, box.net? If it's a wav, put it in a zip or convert to .flac. If you think the original is not worth the trouble, please save edited (cut and normalized I assume?) versions in a lossless format (wav or flac). The ogg files will be created for the engine, but the lossless versions need to be kept for having best quality available at hand.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 03, 2009, 01:41:27 AM
Right now the tracks are all in wav (Sonar/Cakewalk) which is how I'll get them to you guys.

I didn't know if you guys wanted the files normalized or modified in any way (filters, etc.).  Unless I hear otherwise, I'll separate out the raw clips and place them on my server (no filtering or anything).  Will let you know when she's done.  In the mean time, I'm going to go light some fireworks!  :)


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Dave Matney on July 03, 2009, 05:13:06 AM
I'd prefer the raw tracks, anyway, so I can go back and give the game a final master when we get all the audio tracks, giving everything a similar feel.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on July 03, 2009, 11:47:19 AM
I'd prefer the raw tracks
I'll remember that!

I extracted some weapon sounds from us army videos (because they're us government-made, they are public domain) - perhaps you'd like to pick out the stuff that does not suck :) http://www.freesound.org/packsViewSingle.php?id=4366


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: maximinus on July 03, 2009, 04:24:04 PM
Good work qubodup!

(btw, what is your avatar?)


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: shevegen on July 03, 2009, 07:02:59 PM
Quote
(because they're us government-made, they are public domain)

That is pretty cool, I never thought about it that way. Would be interesting for finnish or
russian guys - i mean, so that PARPG could have such a weapon from that area _with_
proper sound effect ... ;)


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on July 03, 2009, 09:22:16 PM
Good work qubodup!

(btw, what is your avatar?)
Thx!

I'm a fan of http://www.blastwavecomic.com/



That is pretty cool, I never thought about it that way. Would be interesting for finnish or
russian guys - i mean, so that PARPG could have such a weapon from that area _with_
proper sound effect ... ;)
you never thought about *what* which way? :D I don't know if north east european government organizations have much shooting weapons on-line and whether their laws make these videos compatible with our license choice. Or russian gov. orgainzations for that matter


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: shevegen on July 03, 2009, 10:10:17 PM
Quote
you never thought about *what* which way?

Well I did put the part in quotes and thought it was obvious, but I guess I have to pinpoint:

My thoughts were
-> "cool, public taxpayer money, public video, free to use!"

Quote
whether their laws make these videos compatible with our license choice.

I dont know the US law but hey - if the US army has no problem with that (and we all know
that they may be paranoid about terrorists here and terrorists there) - I wouldn't
understand why european armies would make any fuzz about sounds extracted from
videos. Not as if sound of a weapon is anything super secret :P

I guess the real point of the little revelation I had was that we could basically take every
sound! If it is public, we can use all the youtube audio stuff too


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on July 04, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
I wouldn't
understand why european armies would make any fuzz about sounds extracted from
videos. Not as if sound of a weapon is anything super secret :P

I guess the real point of the little revelation I had was that we could basically take every
sound! If it is public, we can use all the youtube audio stuff too
Unfortunately this is not true. US Army material is safe to use because of the laws on the copyright status of work by the U.S. government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_work_by_the_U.S._government). Most things that are publically available are protected by copyright (automatically). We can't assume that someone is ok with our use (re-distributing/using under GPL3&CCBYSA3). We have to ask. Often it is hard to find out who the original copyright holder is too.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 24, 2009, 05:23:41 AM
Okay, finally got around to dumping these into separate wav files.  Sorry for the delay.
The text file describes each file's contents and where those particular sounds occur
for each of the following firearms:

.45 ACP long slide [M1911A1]
12-ga semi-auto shotgun [Browning Belgian]
.22WMG bolt action [Marlin]
30-06 "sniper rifle" [Remington 700]).

http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/PARPG_Audio.txt
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/12ga_dry.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/12ga_load_chamber.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/22_mag.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/30-06_accessories.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/30-06_bolt.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/30-06_load.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/45_add_rounds.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/45_unload_rounds.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/45ACP_Loading.wav
http://other.fossilrecords.net/parpg/45ACP_slide.wav

Let me know if one of the files doesn't work - I probably futzed the filename.

EDIT:  Everything was recorded dry so that appropriate effects could be added later.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Suzi on July 29, 2009, 03:13:33 PM
All files seem to work.
Some very impressive pieces my ears had the pleasure to hear.
The 30-6_bolt sounds a bit different in comparison with the the others.
Though no idea how the real one looks/how it sounds/etc. Just wanted to let you know.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: mvBarracuda on July 29, 2009, 08:54:39 PM
Wow that's great Gary :-) Do you have a collection of weapons at home or how could you record them? If you don't mind, I'll convert the sounds to ogg vorbis and add them to our SVN repository including the README file.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 30, 2009, 11:55:37 PM
All files seem to work.
Some very impressive pieces my ears had the pleasure to hear.
The 30-6_bolt sounds a bit different in comparison with the the others.
Though no idea how the real one looks/how it sounds/etc. Just wanted to let you know.

Thanks Suzi - the 30-06 is a big rifle with a manual bolt giving it a deeper sound and lacking the "smack!" that the automatics have.  All of them were recorded acoustically in my studio using the same equipment and without effects.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 31, 2009, 12:01:36 AM
Wow that's great Gary :-) Do you have a collection of weapons at home or how could you record them? If you don't mind, I'll convert the sounds to ogg vorbis and add them to our SVN repository including the README file.

Thanks Barra! 

Yes, those four firearms are my personal collection.  I hope to add a Mini-14 to the collection soon.  :)  The shotgun belonged to my paternal grandfather and is over 55 years old so it's a family keepsake.  The .22-Mag is my son's target rifle, the 30-06 is my target rifle, and the .45 is my peacemaker.  ;)

I don't know if there will be muzzle-loaders in the game, but my grandfather has his grandfather's musket from the Civil War.  If there's a need, I can probably record it as well.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Suzi on July 31, 2009, 12:07:20 PM
Thanks Suzi - the 30-06 is a big rifle with a manual bolt giving it a deeper sound and lacking the "smack!" that the automatics have.  All of them were recorded acoustically in my studio using the same equipment and without effects.
Ah yes, that`s exactly what i meant.

This is just my guess, would you like to see those weapons in the game you own? Don`t know if they fit into the setting but some photos of them would make texturing really easy.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Gary on July 31, 2009, 08:11:55 PM
Ah yes, that`s exactly what i meant.

This is just my guess, would you like to see those weapons in the game you own? Don`t know if they fit into the setting but some photos of them would make texturing really easy.

Here's the 30-06:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_700
Here's the .45:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911A1
Here's the .22 Mag:  http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/22WinMagnum/982.asp
Here's the 12-ga:  http://www.browninga5.com/


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Suzi on August 10, 2009, 06:19:30 PM
I`m no gun expert but i think there`s a good possibility that some of these weapons may end up in Norway, Finland -area. Then another thing to discuss is if to use weapons from real life maybe some problems could occur because of the trademark and being open source etc (except for the AK-47, who cares). Would like to see them but these problems have to be discussed and solved, a realistic setting without realistic guns will take a small piece of atmosphere away.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: zenbitz on August 12, 2009, 09:56:57 PM
I am not a lawyer, but I am 90% sure there is no problem with representing commercial products in a free game.  It's like free advertising.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 12, 2009, 11:24:06 PM
Nope, I disagree. Check out this usual FAQ, written by Tom Sloper, an industry veteran:
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/faq61.htm

(Seach for "trademark")


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: shevegen on August 13, 2009, 12:32:44 AM
I dont think you can trademark a sound effect from a reallife camera or other device recording sound. It seems absurd to me that any trademark issue could ever exist for a sound of an AK-47, or a tank, or similar combat machinery for that matter. I also dont recall any law suit concerning this.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on August 13, 2009, 01:38:48 AM
Um.. are we talking about using real gun sounds or using real gun names?

If it's about the names, I think that using them might be a problem, if they are currently protected by trademark. I found one resource: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/11/27/lgj-the-name-game/

mvBarra: wow, what a FAQ. Awesome.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 13, 2009, 02:25:20 AM
I was talking about avoiding to use real gun names in PARPG. You can't trademark the sound of a weapon.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: Suzi on August 13, 2009, 08:43:12 AM
I think sound should be pretty clear that it`s allowed.
But what makes a gun a gun? First of all the name and of course the model itself, how it looks etc.
So if we change the name then one problem is solved but the gun will still look like the original one. If you model a Ferrari it`ll stay a Ferrari, no matter how you call it.

Realistically the worst thing which can happen is that somebody sues us and forces us to take em down, optimisticaly no one notices/cares.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 13, 2009, 09:10:15 AM
I wouldn't worry about copying the look of a weapon too closely. In the end it will be pretty hard to prove for anyone that we meant a specific weapon just because it looks similar, especially if we used a different name.


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: zenbitz on August 13, 2009, 08:57:34 PM
wow that is stupid.  especially the part about if you use the ACTUAL item (in, say, a movie) as opposed to a computer reproduction of it, it's legal.

My recommendation is the following:

1) make a very short list of in-game guns  (<20)
2) make identical models of guns, save them.  make tiny modification to the identical ones; use them for now.
3) make fake names for the guns, use them with the modified models.
4) if we ever actually get that far, ask manufacturers for permission to use their trademarks.



Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: mvBarracuda on August 17, 2009, 01:46:52 PM
The sounds are now in SVN. I've converted them to flac so we got them as lossless versions. We'll need to transcode them to Ogg Vorbis for the ingame versions later. But lossless versions are great if further sound editing is needed. The flac versions about 33% of the size of the PCM WAV versions:
http://parpg-trac.cvsdude.com/parpg/browser/trunk/media/audio/sound_fx/weapons


Title: Re: Guns - extraneous sounds
Post by: qubodup on June 24, 2012, 03:35:02 PM
I uploaded these nice sounds to OGA: http://opengameart.org/content/handling-guns