Post-Apocalyptic RPG forums

Development => Programming => Topic started by: maximinus on April 24, 2009, 01:59:24 PM



Title: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on April 24, 2009, 01:59:24 PM
Just thought I'd add a thread to post some (maybe) pretty pictures. Anyhow, here's the latest SVN version, hot off the press from about 5 minutes ago. We now have some simple buildings you can walk around (the image has been re-scaled).

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/buildings2.jpg)

I'll post any more pictures as the code gets updated here as well.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on May 05, 2009, 03:52:19 PM
Added shrew81's gfx to SVN, purely for motivation and the fact that they look good!

Both the PC and the hut I had to hack a little bit, and the hut is now probably the wrong size, but that's because I'm not really a gfx guy. But here is a new screenshot for you all to enjoy anyway:

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/motivate1.jpg)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: egalor on May 05, 2009, 04:28:48 PM
Very nice. We want moar, tho. :)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: shrew81 on May 05, 2009, 09:24:33 PM
haha! that makes me feel good!
The screen looks good, I will be working on getting a piece of ground underneath my pieces from now on, so it will blend in well.
I guess snow? and tracks from foot traffic.
anyways, cheers


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on May 05, 2009, 09:49:11 PM
The scenery itself should usually not contain any ground AFAICT. This way you can simply put it on a lot of different ground types. Feedback by the other artists would be appreciated.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Sirren on May 05, 2009, 09:55:26 PM
I only tinkered with Arcanum and Fallout but do share this opinion.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: shrew81 on May 06, 2009, 01:13:20 AM
But what about tracks, dirt floors underneath huts and other 'living world' things? should those be rendered to sprites as well and then placed below?


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on May 06, 2009, 04:26:27 AM
I must admit I'd rather have the building seperate from all the stuff around it (like the barrels and so forth) because the code for splitting the building up is already a bit nasty.

But to be honest, I'd rather see a few more buildings added by the artists because then I can see the problems that will arise.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: eleazzaar on May 07, 2009, 03:38:29 AM
But what about tracks, dirt floors underneath huts and other 'living world' things? should those be rendered to sprites as well and then placed below?

Anything you can potentially walk behind or go inside should be rendered as a separate image from the ground it rest on, otherwise you can't overlap people, objects and ground properly.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on May 08, 2009, 02:54:45 PM
We're still puzzled if you should be able to enter buildings without a map switch or if the interieur of buildings should reside in a separate map that gets loaded once you enter the building. Both approach got pros and cons: separate buildings are easier to handle when it comes to graphics creation and programming; in case of buildings that you can enter without loading a new map, you will need to worry about z-ordering and blocking as well as proper splitting of buildings (in several one tile-width wall pieces) to work around that.

On the other side buildings that you can enter without a map change provide some additional gameplay depth. E.g. You could fire from the inside of a building through the windows of it at somebody who walks around outside. That would also work the other way round.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on May 08, 2009, 03:54:55 PM
This is not the right thread but it would be a *lot * easier to have building interiors as a separate map; we could even have things like stairs and lifts. The lack of an ability to shoot out of the windows seems very minor IMO.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: eleazzaar on May 08, 2009, 07:38:09 PM
This is not the right thread but it would be a *lot * easier to have building interiors as a separate map; we could even have things like stairs and lifts.

Most cRPGs do it that way (in my experience).  I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on May 08, 2009, 08:12:34 PM
I'm a Fallout maniac :-) Buildings were split up in Fallout and Arcanum. The Infinity Engines (Baldurs Gate, PS:T, Icewind Dale) games handled it differently and used separate maps for the purpose.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on May 11, 2009, 09:43:02 AM
Our happy post apocalyptic couple find more crates.....  ;)

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/motivate2.jpg)

This was more work than you might think, since I separated out the data for the objects and NPCs (since they may well change when you go back to a map). So now these are loaded from a separate XML and then added to Fife with another piece of code.

Or to put it simply, our data model just got a lot better.

Or even simpler, progress continues  ;D


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 01, 2009, 02:40:32 PM
Been a while since my last post here....

Anyway, you can now right-click objects to see a short description of them. This shot also shows how the HUD currently looks in the game.

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/firstText.jpg)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 05, 2009, 08:43:54 AM
Splitting up the buildings correctly is getting closer  ;)

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/tile_split.jpg)


I keep all of these pictures on Photobucket, so for a quick visual history of PARPG just look here:

http://s437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/?albumview=slideshow (http://s437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/?albumview=slideshow)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 05, 2009, 01:38:50 PM
And now working fine:

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/tile_split2.jpg)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 05, 2009, 02:35:44 PM
Sorry about the ego-trip wall, it'll be gone next time I commit  :D


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 08, 2009, 05:19:25 AM
Snow now added, and right-clicking is pixel perfect AND you get a free highlight!

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/highlight.jpg)

The colour of the highlight can easily change. Suggestions are welcome.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Gaspard on June 08, 2009, 07:50:42 AM
I already tried the thing out. There's a thing with the highlighting - if you highlight the crate next to the woman and then move your mouse over to the woman then the crate stays highlighted and woman becomes highlighted at the same time - crate's highlight does not disappear in this case. Same thing happens the other way around - from woman to crate.

There's a question about the character movement too - when it moves around a corner of a building it cuts through the building's graphic. Is that fixable with blocking (so that it takes a step AROUND not through the corner) ?

Great work so far  :D


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: sm4rv on June 08, 2009, 07:56:50 AM
The colour of the highlight can easily change. Suggestions are welcome.

I prefer green to blue :).


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 08, 2009, 10:23:58 AM
I already tried the thing out. There's a thing with the highlighting - if you highlight the crate next to the woman and then move your mouse over to the woman then the crate stays highlighted and woman becomes highlighted at the same time - crate's highlight does not disappear in this case. Same thing happens the other way around - from woman to crate.

There's a question about the character movement too - when it moves around a corner of a building it cuts through the building's graphic. Is that fixable with blocking (so that it takes a step AROUND not through the corner) ?

Great work so far  :D

First point is being worked on.

The second point, clipping issues, is a FIFE thing. I'm thinking of suggesting that the buildings don't go fully to the edge of the tile, that would resolve a lot of it. Other than that there's nothing we can do (I appreciate it's also hard to solve in FIFE as well).


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Gaspard on June 08, 2009, 10:35:57 AM
Couldn't the character (NPCs/critters alike) be forced to walk around the corner - ie take an extra step ? So it wouldn't go one step - hop - through corners of tiles but instead take two steps to turn the corner by moving through the sides of the squares

EDIT: I'd think an animated character might have their own problems in a situation like this


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 08, 2009, 11:00:23 AM
Couldn't the character (NPCs/critters alike) be forced to walk around the corner - ie take an extra step ? So it wouldn't go one step - hop - through corners of tiles but instead take two steps to turn the corner by moving through the sides of the squares

EDIT: I'd think an animated character might have their own problems in a situation like this

IF you re-wrote some FIFE stuff, yes - be my guest!  ;D


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 08, 2009, 11:21:05 AM
To be honest: to my understanding FIFE acts 100% like intended in this case. I don't see how you could really rewrite parts of FIFE to deal with it. If somebody actually got an idea how this could be done, please suggest it and I'm more than happy to ask the FIFE developers if they could add this kind of functionality to FIFE. One of the old lead programmers of FIFE plans to spend some time working on the engine again this summer, so he might be interested in working on this aspect if we bring it up.

The other option is (as said): add additional invisible blockers at the edges of buildings to prevent that the character steps into them, it's not hard and it will be even easier once the new improved map editor tool is available in trunk that gets currently developed in one of FIFE's SVN branches.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Gaspard on June 08, 2009, 12:17:59 PM
The other option is (as said): add additional invisible blockers at the edges of buildings to prevent that the character steps into them

Actually that's the thing I had in mind. I've already realized that re-writing parts of FIFE by the PARPG team is pretty much moot


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 08, 2009, 01:04:36 PM
My point is: I doubt that you can automatize the task anyway. Even if we would have a lot of experienced C++ programmers on the team, I don't see any _generic_ way to implement it. Feel free to correct me guys :-)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 08, 2009, 01:22:31 PM
My point is: I doubt that you can automatize the task anyway. Even if we would have a lot of experienced C++ programmers on the team, I don't see any _generic_ way to implement it. Feel free to correct me guys :-)

You could it properly with an awesome amount of difficulty. I think you would end up re-creating the entire engine in 3D on the way though - which has elements of applying Greenspuns tenth rule to the problem!


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 08, 2009, 01:46:26 PM
Yep, I agree about your comment maximinus: there is no easy generic way to do that with a 2d engine and switching to the 3d one will complicate a lot of other aspects. Therefore we should:
a) Add some x / y shifts to the relevants objects as well as
b) Add invisible blockers where needed

These approaches should be sufficent to cope with it.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 08, 2009, 01:59:22 PM
Yes. I don't think it's a major problem, as long as the artists and map makers are aware of it and adjust accordingly.

Certainly the effort required to eliminate it the 'proper' way is far beyond what we could do now.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Sirren on June 08, 2009, 09:25:43 PM
My apologies if this is off topic, I couldn't find a proper thread to post this: I'm working on the raindeer walk clip and I saw that in html files in parpg agent folder walk/run animations are already defined... Are those animations already implemented? Is it already possible to test a player's sprite walk animation?
Anyway... I saw I can grab icons in the inventory screen. Trying to grab one of the daggers crashed parpg/python.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 09, 2009, 02:50:09 AM
There is an animation.xml file, but it essentially empty. We currently have no animation frames for the PC.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Dave Matney on June 09, 2009, 03:30:59 AM
Also, I was thinking we'll need death, and maybe running, animation for the deer.  If we're going to have hunting, that deer's going to be a prize.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 09, 2009, 04:38:42 AM
I'll be re-doing the map very soon for more testing purposes, so I'll get the current reindeer gfx in and we'll see how it looks  :)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 09, 2009, 11:32:17 PM
Anyway... I saw I can grab icons in the inventory screen. Trying to grab one of the daggers crashed parpg/python.
Hmm, I can't confirm this bug on my win32 system. The problem might vanish if you update both FIFE and PARPG to the latest SVN revision and run cleanup_engine.bat and logbuild_engine.bat after that. I think it might be an issue with an older FIFE revision used in combination with a recent PARPG one.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 11, 2009, 02:46:08 AM
You were actually totally right about the crash Sirren :-) I simply confused the left hand (that's displayed at the right side of the inventory) with the right one. We just tracked down the problem and commited a fix to SVN. So once you update your PARPG version, everything should work fine.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 13, 2009, 08:53:04 AM
You can now right-click doors to move to another level:

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/doors.jpg)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Dave Matney on June 13, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
You can now right-click doors to move to another level:

I thought we were shooting for Fallout like buildings? Disappearing ceilings 'n all that, and highlighted doors for stairs down (though we hadn't figured anything for building up).


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: mvBarracuda on June 13, 2009, 08:29:58 PM
Nope, we've agreed upon implementing buildings the InfinityEngine way: as separate interieur maps. In case it turns out to be a major gameplay hassle, we can still reconsider the decision but for now we'll stick to it and see how well it works out.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 15, 2009, 05:33:29 AM
Nope, we've agreed upon implementing buildings the InfinityEngine way: as separate interior maps.

And here is our very first interior map, with exit door working and everything!

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/interior.jpg)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Dave Matney on June 15, 2009, 05:49:32 AM
So awesome. :)


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Zimble on June 15, 2009, 07:12:04 AM
Man, you guys have been pretty busy. That looks damn sweet.  :o


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 15, 2009, 08:58:45 AM
Hopefully we can have something actually IN the building later as well - just reliant on the gfx...


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: Imons on June 15, 2009, 01:21:04 PM
looks very nice. hope i can start to contribute to the project very soon.


Title: Re: Pretty pictures....
Post by: maximinus on June 15, 2009, 03:52:54 PM
And tweaked a little:

(http://i437.photobucket.com/albums/qq100/hengdi/interiors2.jpg)